Ammo recommendation for M1a?

[IUprof]

I need some input on ammo since I'm new to the caliber and it ain't cheap! Do you shoot factory .308 ammo or surplus 7.62? I assume surplus is dirty, but the rifle can be cleaned Any special source? I am just range shooting, not long range/match. Thanks!

 

[Classic]

I have shot both surplus and commercial in mine. I suppose you could get better accuracy from good quality factory ammo than with surplus, at a cost. I haven't noticed surplus ammo being any dirtier in firing, although sometimes the cartridge cases are not shiny and pretty. I solved the dilemma by loading my own ammo which I can adjust to fit the exact firearm/use and I can make it as "clean" as possible on the cartridge cases and with the type of projectile/powder combination. If you start shooting often you will likely want to begin reloading as well.

 

[M67]

If I remember right, Garands and M1As (shooting non corrosive ammo), should be cleaned every 500-1000 rounds.

So, treat your rifle like the combat piece it's made to be and stop babying it and cleaning it after every magazine. Just because it's got a little powder residue doesn't mean it'll stop working.

Okay, that being said, Federal makes their M1A loads specially for M1As. But at over a buck a shot it's a little pricey. But it might be worth the security knowing the loads are right and they won't fire out of battery because they are the correct length

For a Garand, the "classic" load for that was 50 grains of 4064 using 150-155 grain bullets.

Looks like for a M1A using 4064 it's 36.1gr-42.6gr. Which is better than my "plinking" loads for my 308 AR, usuing 44-48 grains of powder depending if it's 748 or CFE

 

[Mr. Habib]

If you're looking for some locally, the Bloomington Wal Mart had several boxes of both Winchester and MTE in stock this morning.

 

[sig1473]

I shoot both 7.62x51 Surplus and factory 308. I have never encountered a problem with any of the surplus(Santa Barbara, Radway, Port, or POF). My standard really likes the 145-147GR surplus. The factory 308 I use is S&B, Remington UMC, and Federal. I have some Federal 168GR Match but I haven't fed it any as I keep that for my LR-308.

 

[Leadeye]

Been shooting an M1A since 81, mine likes 3031 and 748 best, under 150 grain bullets.

 

[IUprof]

Terrific! Thanks for all this info. Glad to hear cleaning after 500-1000 rounds since I usually do that with most of my rifles!!

 

[red_zr24x4]

I've only used surplus and reloads in my M1A Standard.
Read this sticky from over at www.m14forum - INDIAN AMMO WARNING - READ THIS!!!! - M14 Forum the warning actually came from the Cetme forum but the link inside the M14 post doesn't work anymore.
I will say my Brother had a bunch of the Indian ammo, shot it for years in a FAL without an issue.
I got my M1A in 2010/2011 and on the first magazine using ammo I got from him (Indian) I had a round that split the case from the primer pocket through the rim and up into the case walls.
It blew the bottom of the magazine out and dumped the rest of the rounds out the bottom. It didn't do any damage to the rifle except bend the floorplate of the mag. I'm glad it didnt cause a chain reaction with rounds detonating in the mag.
I still have the case, if I can get a pic of it later I will upload it.

 

[tenring]

7.62mm Military load data

 

[Broom_jm]

I don't care what kind of rifle you're shooting, other than a 22 rimfire...the barrel should be cleaned a whole lot more often than every 500 to 1,000 rounds! The action can probably go that long, but even then...why subject your rifle to neglect when it certainly can't HURT to clean them more frequently than that.

 

[red_zr24x4]

If I remember right, Garands and M1As (shooting non corrosive powder), should be cleaned every 500-1000 rounds.

I don't care what kind of rifle you're shooting, other than a 22 rimfire...the barrel should be cleaned a whole lot more often than every 500 to 1,000 rounds! The action can probably go that long, but even then...why subject your rifle to neglect when it certainly can't HURT to clean them more frequently than that.

I would clean after every range session, at least swab the bore and clean the gas system. I might consider only removing the action from the stock every 500-1000 rds, some people say longer some say every cleaning

Edit to add-
M67, it is my understanding that its the primer compound that is corrosive and not the powder

 

[M67]

I don't care what kind of rifle you're shooting, other than a 22 rimfire...the barrel should be cleaned a whole lot more often than every 500 to 1,000 rounds! The action can probably go that long, but even then...why subject your rifle to neglect when it certainly can't HURT to clean them more frequently than that.

I have about 1500 rounds through one of my ARs. Never cleaned the bore other than getting the factory stuff out of it. A friend of mine finally got bored and cleaned his test AR, after 10,000 rounds. He never cleaned the bore either.

Only bores I bother to clean are ones I shoot lead through.

There was a link to an article posted recently here of an article written a few years ago. Basiclaly this writer found out that the best cleaning for a rifle was to shoot it more and let the jackets clean everything. That solvents, rods, and brushes eventually scratch, erode, and widen the little pits inside a barrel.

Shoot it and leave it. But, different people do things different ways.

Edit to add-
M67, it is my understanding that its the primer compound that is corrosive and not the powder

It is the primer, it was early and I was getting ready for work. Edited to say ammo. Thanks

 

[Broom_jm]

...
There was a link to an article posted recently here of an article written a few years ago. Basiclaly this writer found out that the best cleaning for a rifle was to shoot it more and let the jackets clean everything. That solvents, rods, and brushes eventually scratch, erode, and widen the little pits inside a barrel.

Shoot it and leave it. But, different people do things different ways.

There are endless articles about how proper cleaning of rifles, of all types, maintains their accuracy potential, protects the bore/throat from premature erosion and preserves the value by keeping it in excellent condition. Maybe the AR's are built to be used hard and neglected, but there are few people claiming it's wise to do so. At the very least, advocating negligence with one type of rifle could be confused for acceptable treatment of other types. There are many situations outside of an AR where keeping your gun clean is important to preserving its function and protecting your investment.

 

[M67]

If it's non corrosive ammo, how is a little crud mixed with good lube going to affect your investment unless you try and sell it, which in that case clean it before hand?

Guns well, they were built for war, battle rifles. Semi autos, bolt actions, etc. All originally designed for combat. Unless you have some match firearm with stupid tight toleraces where a little crud locks the gun up, why does it hurt to have it dirty? People baby their firearms and they won't know what they're capable of. They are built for use. Do you tear apart your car engine every 1000 miles if it still runs fine? Hell do you do it at 100,000? Probably not. Cars are bigger investments than guns, but you seldom find the person who tears apart their engine and clean everything when they're bored or after every 10,000 miles. They just change the fluid. I put more lube in, and clean it when something wrong does occur. Don't fix what ain't broken sort of thing.

Sweets is used by a lot of prarie dog hunters I know to clean their bores when they're taking a few minutes to rest. This is the old school Sweets, real nasty stuff, the type you have to use outside because if you're inside and get a whiff you could pass out, maybe die if it's a small space. This stuff will instantly blister the inside of your mouth if a small drop manages to spray on you. It does a great job cleaning, but how can a substance so nasty be good to put in a rifle?

But all guns are different, if I had a rifle tat pushed 4000+fps and actually got copper fouling, then I'd clean it. But I don't.

M1As, Garands, ARs; they're battle rifles built for battle. You don't have to baby them.

Anyway, guns are guns, they're tough and people probably do baby them too much. If they're functioning fine, then why bother to clean them? I don't use a shotgun, don't have much use for them. But you know there are a lot of A5s out there that are 60 years old, feel like hell because they have WD40 and ancient nasty grease in them, and they still work fine.

 

[IUprof]

 

[M67]

Yeah, sorry about that

 

[IUprof]

LOL. I thought it was funny. I should state for the record that, although I do not clean my rifles after every outing (I do my pistols) I am NOT an unworthy rifle-owner, nor do I endanger my long guns in any way! Please do not call RPS (rifle protective services).

Now that we settled that...I'm jumping over the the OC/CC thread

 

[Cerberus]

Broom, some accomplished LR shooters advise to not over clean the barrel, especially with copper removing solvents. I no longer clean a bore until I put at least 200 rounds down the pipe, and then I only run an oily boresnake or nylon brush thru them. Lead bullet guns get a bit more diligence.

 

[Broom_jm]

This is probably just the difference between those concerned with function from their semi-auto rifle and those concerned with precision from their bolt-action rifle. Suffice to say that the majority of "accomplished LR shooters", as well as guys carrying semi-auto rifles in combat, endeavor to keep the action and bore of their rifle clean. When your score or your life depends on it, the answer is obvious. If you're just a recreational shooter and have a "why bother to clean them?" attitude about your guns, that's OK with me.

Most folks have enough common sense and pride of ownership to know that routine maintenance is the key to reliability and long service life, so they change the oil in their engines and they clean their guns. I suspect if we were to run a poll on how often folks clean their guns it would be a lot more often than every 10,000 rounds.

...and THAT is a thread-jack!

 

[M67]

This is probably just the difference between those concerned with function from their semi-auto rifle and those concerned with precision from their bolt-action rifle. Suffice to say that the majority of "accomplished LR shooters", as well as guys carrying semi-auto rifles in combat, endeavor to keep the action and bore of their rifle clean. When your score or your life depends on it, the answer is obvious. If you're just a recreational shooter and have a "why bother to clean them?" attitude about your guns, that's OK with me.

Most folks have enough common sense and pride of ownership to know that routine maintenance is the key to reliability and long service life, so they change the oil in their engines and they clean their guns. I suspect if we were to run a poll on how often folks clean their guns it would be a lot more often than every 10,000 rounds.

...and THAT is a thread-jack!

They change the oil in their cars but do they tear down the engine for the fun of it when the engine still performs normal? Nope, they just change the fluid. They add new lube.

And trust me, I've been close to starting a thread about cleaning. See how many people know exactly what their firearms can go through before they stop functioning correctly, reliably, or when accuracy degrades.

As for "mentality" and accuracy, shooting from a dirty bore has always shot better than a clean one, in my experience.