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a rant that will probably tick quite a few off regarding Military/LEOs
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It worries me that some people allow the opinion of others to define their worth.
Their opinion doesn't change what was done, why it was done, and the sacrifices that were made.
My feelings are not dependant on whether or not someone gives me the proper amount of respect.
Service requires humility.
Their opinion doesn't change what was done, why it was done, and the sacrifices that were made.
My feelings are not dependant on whether or not someone gives me the proper amount of respect.
Service requires humility.
I have been thinking about this a lot.
I think I have my thought organized sufficiently to express them on screen.
I would like to see people thanking service members for the right reason, and maybe they are and I just don't know it.
Things like Bravery, commitment, personal sacrifice, duty, and honor are commendable and wonderful things.
We should not just thank our service members though, but also give them our sympathy. Sympathy for the families torn apart, the emotional damage, the images that never leave your head, the sounds that never leave your ears, friends lost, lives destroyed...
The former without the later applies a glossy venier to the inevitable tradgedy that will haunt most if not all who have served in combat.
I understand why people get mad when the OP posts a comment like this, because it's easier to cope with anger than sadness. It's more effective to yell at someone than to just quietly weep for all that was lost.
War is ALWAYS a net loss, and when we fail to keep this in the front of our mind, we fail to fully understand the true gravity of what war really is, and what it means to serve.
I don't often thank people for their service, or talk to them about it, unless I know them personally, because I don't feel it incumbant upon myself to open old wounds.
Perhaps I project my feelings onto others, and that is why I'm the way I am. I very well may be in the extreme minority in my opinion too. I have a brother who served in combat, who took fire, and watched his Marines get blown to bits. My wife and I have burried a daughter and a brother, so we a keenly aware of what it is to lose someone before their time.
Someone said in another thread, that if you want to know how to fight you should know what it feels like to get hit first. Good advise...
I think I have my thought organized sufficiently to express them on screen.
I would like to see people thanking service members for the right reason, and maybe they are and I just don't know it.
Things like Bravery, commitment, personal sacrifice, duty, and honor are commendable and wonderful things.
We should not just thank our service members though, but also give them our sympathy. Sympathy for the families torn apart, the emotional damage, the images that never leave your head, the sounds that never leave your ears, friends lost, lives destroyed...
The former without the later applies a glossy venier to the inevitable tradgedy that will haunt most if not all who have served in combat.
I understand why people get mad when the OP posts a comment like this, because it's easier to cope with anger than sadness. It's more effective to yell at someone than to just quietly weep for all that was lost.
War is ALWAYS a net loss, and when we fail to keep this in the front of our mind, we fail to fully understand the true gravity of what war really is, and what it means to serve.
I don't often thank people for their service, or talk to them about it, unless I know them personally, because I don't feel it incumbant upon myself to open old wounds.
Perhaps I project my feelings onto others, and that is why I'm the way I am. I very well may be in the extreme minority in my opinion too. I have a brother who served in combat, who took fire, and watched his Marines get blown to bits. My wife and I have burried a daughter and a brother, so we a keenly aware of what it is to lose someone before their time.
Someone said in another thread, that if you want to know how to fight you should know what it feels like to get hit first. Good advise...
Serving in the military is a tremendous sacrifice and I don't understand why anyone would be upset with gestures of appreciation. And it's not just a job where you do the same thing over and over and make more money doing it. No, it's a volunteer who has pride in his country and understands the duty to protect the fools that do not appreciate heroism. Indiana has at least two VA hospitals because there is an ongoing need to need care for health issues acquired while serving. Yet we still need not-for-profits like Wounded Warriors to provide care. Everyone should be grateful for their sacrifices!
rooster3654
Plinker
If you cantering want to stand behind the military/police feel free to stand in front of us when the bullets and mortars start coming in. 
That is every bit as ridiculous a generalization as claiming that every soldier is a blood-crazed nutjob looking to kill someone every minute of the day. Soldiers are not saints or angels any more than they are devils; they're regular people just like you and me. Many join the military for short stints in order to get free college and suchlike. There is no shame in that, but also no rosy-eyed hero-worship either.
I'm not the first person to mention that there are others who do jobs that are statistically more dangerous than that of a soldier and which require a great deal of skill and ability to perform.
Soldiers, police officers, and other public servants are indeed worthy of respect for the fact that they put their lives on the line. Never, ever, would I want to take away from that. But let's stay grounded in reality and give respect in proper measure, eh?
If you cantering want to stand behind the military/police feel free to stand in front of us when the bullets and mortars start coming in.
You really shouldn't be standing up if bullets and mortars are coming in.
Depends....
Of course, the families in the aftermath of these....
...might be asking something along the lines of, "Where were they (law enforcement) to protect my family from these speeders?" Just Sayin'
Best way to not be part of the "revenue stream" is to follow the traffic laws.
Sorry....now back to reading...I'm only on page 16
Ok, well, I read a lot of it, and it seems from what I see, most are fine with the military, but have issues with LEOs.
Why is that? You did something to get the cops attention and had to pay for it? Most wont bother you for no reason. You can say they do, but anyone who is honest with themselves cant say that. I know a number of people who have had run ins, lots of times, and have myself from time to time, and never was there a case of the police just doing it for no reason at all.
The bottom line, as simply as I can put it, coming from a military and LEO family, is this.
In the military, you know which way and mostly where your enemies are. When you go to fight them, you have all manner of protection, and weapons at the ready. You have hundreds or thousands of hours of training. You have your buddies right there with you.
In law enforcement, you do not know who your enemy is, but they know you. When you get in a fight, you have very little protection, and your weapons are generally NOT at the ready. You have a couple hundred hours of training if you are lucky, each year, but mostly based on law, not tactics. Most times you are alone. If you are lucky, you work in the city, where your backup is less than a minute away. If you arent, you work in the county, where it can be 20 minutes away.
How many professions have gangs compiling information on individual members of that profession, and attempt to assassinate those members individually as well?
How many professions preach taking a different way home each night, so that it is easier to spot someone who might want to follow you?
How many wear bullet proof vest on the off chance someone will take a shot at them on a random traffic stop, or domestic violence call?
Do soldiers have to do death notifications? I bet an officer had to notify someone on one of the above accidents that their loved ones werent coming home ever again.
There are many things that LEOs go through that the general public never even considers, and some they will never know unless they themselves put on a badge and do the job.
Someone mentioned the treatment of soldiers coming home from Vietnam. While few officers are spit on and called names by large groups of people, this thread is a testament to the ill will towards them at all times. Yet they still choose to serve....nobody wants them around until they need them, and then they cant get there fast enough.
One statistic no one mentioned, law enforcement has the highest divorce rate...and is one of the highest stress jobs someone can have.
They all deserve your respect. As do firemen and teachers. They all have thankless jobs, and are underpaid.
Why is that? You did something to get the cops attention and had to pay for it? Most wont bother you for no reason. You can say they do, but anyone who is honest with themselves cant say that. I know a number of people who have had run ins, lots of times, and have myself from time to time, and never was there a case of the police just doing it for no reason at all.
The bottom line, as simply as I can put it, coming from a military and LEO family, is this.
In the military, you know which way and mostly where your enemies are. When you go to fight them, you have all manner of protection, and weapons at the ready. You have hundreds or thousands of hours of training. You have your buddies right there with you.
In law enforcement, you do not know who your enemy is, but they know you. When you get in a fight, you have very little protection, and your weapons are generally NOT at the ready. You have a couple hundred hours of training if you are lucky, each year, but mostly based on law, not tactics. Most times you are alone. If you are lucky, you work in the city, where your backup is less than a minute away. If you arent, you work in the county, where it can be 20 minutes away.
How many professions have gangs compiling information on individual members of that profession, and attempt to assassinate those members individually as well?
How many professions preach taking a different way home each night, so that it is easier to spot someone who might want to follow you?
How many wear bullet proof vest on the off chance someone will take a shot at them on a random traffic stop, or domestic violence call?
Do soldiers have to do death notifications? I bet an officer had to notify someone on one of the above accidents that their loved ones werent coming home ever again.
There are many things that LEOs go through that the general public never even considers, and some they will never know unless they themselves put on a badge and do the job.
Someone mentioned the treatment of soldiers coming home from Vietnam. While few officers are spit on and called names by large groups of people, this thread is a testament to the ill will towards them at all times. Yet they still choose to serve....nobody wants them around until they need them, and then they cant get there fast enough.
One statistic no one mentioned, law enforcement has the highest divorce rate...and is one of the highest stress jobs someone can have.
They all deserve your respect. As do firemen and teachers. They all have thankless jobs, and are underpaid.
Okay I am getting on here late and am not going to read 26 pages of responses before I post.
First I very much appreciate the men and women in service to serve our country. I do not think that they should be lumped in with LEOs. They are two very different thing.
There are two kinds of police. The good kind that take calls and respond in a timely manner to actual situations where they are very much needed. To the LEO that do good police work I say thank you. To the others that abuse their power, have chips on their shoulders, or the lazy ones that dont like paperwork (you guys all know who you are). I say please stop. I incur more risk delivering pizza than you do and make on average $14 an hour less. No one has a discount for the Pizza guy... Hell you actually get my same discount at the pizza shop. Because of things like this I understand the OP rant.
First I very much appreciate the men and women in service to serve our country. I do not think that they should be lumped in with LEOs. They are two very different thing.
There are two kinds of police. The good kind that take calls and respond in a timely manner to actual situations where they are very much needed. To the LEO that do good police work I say thank you. To the others that abuse their power, have chips on their shoulders, or the lazy ones that dont like paperwork (you guys all know who you are). I say please stop. I incur more risk delivering pizza than you do and make on average $14 an hour less. No one has a discount for the Pizza guy... Hell you actually get my same discount at the pizza shop. Because of things like this I understand the OP rant.
From what you have stated about LEOs, does that not also apply to US military?
My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There are bad (which are a minority) within both
It may well apply to US MIL also. However, I have no LEO friends (and i do have some) that had their friends blown up by a roadside bomb. So I tend to cut them all the slack they want. Until it is a massacre of Americans I will most likely not go MIL bashing.
The problem is that you don't know the facts of each case. If LEOs didn't wear their seat belts or vests, they could easily be on that list. I know all occupations push safety, but look at the horsing around that goes on with some occupations, even within LE there are embarrassing incidents. One example was a construction worker who was working on an unconfined edge six stories up. They are issue harnesses and are told to strap on, yet this guy didn't and fell over and died.
I will give respect to anyone, but this idea that any one job is more dangerous because they have more deaths is silly. If 1,000 loggers fell from trees and died, and it was later determined that not a one of them wore their safety gear, does that change how one views the deaths? If police officers started to enforce the laws unarmed, not wearing a vest, etc., would it change how we view their deaths?
LE has done a lot in terms of training, yet you will still have officers across the country that won't train, won't stay in even some sort of minimal shape, won't wear their vest, won't wear their seat belt, etc.. Not trying to minimize their deaths, but if one works any sort of dangerous job, they should be taking all precautions given to them. If their companies aren't providing that stuff, file a complaint with OSHA.
It would be absolute insanity for one to not volunteer to fly a P-40 Warhawk or a P-51 or even a B-25.
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