5 Day Waiting Period???

[Southeastern Guy]

Mods - if this is posted in the wrong section, please move it.

I've searched the forum for my answer, but haven't had any luck. Here is my scenerio - looking for some help!

I recently bought a .17hmr rifle and a .40 PX-4 handgun from an out of state dealer. Because I live in the boonies, I was happy to find an FFL guy just down the road from me. Called him and made sure he'd handle the transfer for me - no problem. So far so good. He asked if I had my LTCH and I told him no, but that I was going to fill out the app the next day. He told me he suggested I get it, which I did. Mailed it to the ISP the very next day and am currently in waiting mode.

So the guns have shipped, should be there today. I emailed him and told him they were on the way - at which time he told me I had to wait 5 days. Huh? He said, yep any transfer has 5 day waiting period, thank the Brady's. From what I understand that was replaced by the NICS check and hasn't been law for 11 years?! I also think he is under the impression that if I have my LTCH that he doesn't need to do anything. That's wrong too, right? LTCH or not, they still have to do a background check on me.

I'm confused.... is this because it was out of state? Because it was 2 guns - one of which is a handgun? Or is it because he is 11 years out of date?!

Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[curraheeguns]

He is out of date. He is required to do a NICS check and hold the guns only if they give a delay or of coarse a cancel or denied. If approved then you get them instantly.

 

[snorko]

What he said. Back in the day, the LTCH was kind of a pass on the waiting period but now everyone goes through NICS.

Good luck, I hope this does not mess up your purchase.

 

[Southeastern Guy]

Thanks, that was what I assumed, but that brings me to another point.... isn't there some requirement that, before they get an FFL, they know the law or at least some of the law??? I can see missing something that changed recently - especially if he only does a few transfers a year - but something that changed 11 years ago is borderline scary to me. I have a sneaking suspicion that he is going to make me wait regardless of what I say.... he is adamant that the 5 day thing is the way it works.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Thanks, that was what I assumed, but that brings me to another point.... isn't there some requirement that, before they get an FFL, they know the law or at least some of the law??? I can see missing something that changed recently - especially if he only does a few transfers a year - but something that changed 11 years ago is borderline scary to me. I have a sneaking suspicion that he is going to make me wait regardless of what I say.... he is adamant that the 5 day thing is the way it works.

Have him call ISP Firearms Licensing Section at 317-233-5054

or BATFE (Columbus, OH) at (614) 827-8400

to confirm the law on this.

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[IndyGunworks]

WOW.... this guy doesnt know the new regs for anything... i would give him the phone number to the ATF licensing center and tell him to call ASAP

 

[LEaSH]

He's probably enjoying shooting your guns right now. Just jokin'. No reason to think anything other than he's not up to date with requirements.

 

[DRob]

I'd wait.

Don't take the chance of messing up your pending deal. Wait the 5 days, complete the transaction, THEN tell him he needs to get up to speed. Of course, that means you'll probably need to find another FFL to handle your next transaction.

 

[IDCC]

What town is this FFL in?

 

[Southeastern Guy]

Some of this has been semi-cleared up. But it still differs from what I've read here and elsewhere and we all know the internets is never wrong.

He says the NICS isn't instananeous, that it may take 3-5 days to get an answer. Still maintains that if I come fill out the form on Monday, I don't get the guns until Friday. At this point I'm past caring and will take the good advice from the previous poster about just waiting.

He did throw me for yet another loop though and still says if I'd just wait until my LTCH arrives, that he doesn't need to do the NICS at all. I say that's totally and completely wrong, but then he references this:

IC 35-47-2.5
Chapter 2.5. Sale of Handguns

<A name=IC35-47-2.5-1>IC 35-47-2.5-1
Applicability; conflicts
Sec. 1. (a) This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) Transactions between persons who are licensed as firearms importers or collectors or firearms manufacturers or dealers under 18 U.S.C. 923.
(2) Purchases by or sales to a law enforcement officer or agent of the United States, the state, or a county or local government.
(3) Indiana residents licensed to carry handguns under IC 35-47-2-3.

Subsection (3) clearly states that the chapter on sale of handguns does not apply to people with a LTCH....

Next time, I'm going to a local shop, buying my gun, filling out the paperwork and taking it home. This is too confusing for words...

How do you guys read this Code?

 

[Mgderf]

Some of this has been semi-cleared up. But it still differs from what I've read here and elsewhere and we all know the internets is never wrong.

He says the NICS isn't instananeous, that it may take 3-5 days to get an answer. Still maintains that if I come fill out the form on Monday, I don't get the guns until Friday. At this point I'm past caring and will take the good advice from the previous poster about just waiting.

He did throw me for yet another loop though and still says if I'd just wait until my LTCH arrives, that he doesn't need to do the NICS at all. I say that's totally and completely wrong, but then he references this:

IC 35-47-2.5
Chapter 2.5. Sale of Handguns

<A name=IC35-47-2.5-1>IC 35-47-2.5-1
Applicability; conflicts
Sec. 1. (a) This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) Transactions between persons who are licensed as firearms importers or collectors or firearms manufacturers or dealers under 18 U.S.C. 923.
(2) Purchases by or sales to a law enforcement officer or agent of the United States, the state, or a county or local government.
(3) Indiana residents licensed to carry handguns under IC 35-47-2-3.

Subsection (3) clearly states that the chapter on sale of handguns does not apply to people with a LTCH....

Next time, I'm going to a local shop, buying my gun, filling out the paperwork and taking it home. This is too confusing for words...

How do you guys read this Code?

 

[4sarge]

Please post the name of this alleged shop so that the rest of us can avoid it like the Bubonic plague

 

[Southeastern Guy]

Please post the name of this alleged shop so that the rest of us can avoid it like the Bubonic plague

AFTER I get my guns!

 

[ATM]

IC 35-47-2.5
Chapter 2.5. Sale of Handguns

Subsection (3) clearly states that the chapter on sale of handguns does not apply to people with a LTCH....

How do you guys read this Code?

I don't think any INDIANA code will relieve an FFL from having to follow FEDERAL code.

 

[finity]

Tell him to read further on down, particularly section (b):

IC 35-47-2.5-1
Applicability; conflicts
Sec. 1. (a) This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) Transactions between persons who are licensed as firearms importers or collectors or firearms manufacturers or dealers under 18 U.S.C. 923.
(2) Purchases by or sales to a law enforcement officer or agent of the United States, the state, or a county or local government.
(3) Indiana residents licensed to carry handguns under IC 35-47-2-3.
(b) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the state shall participate in the NICS if federal funds are available to assist the state in participating in the NICS. If:
(1) the state participates in the NICS; and
(2) there is a conflict between:
(A) a provision of this chapter; and
(B) a procedure required under the NICS;
the procedure required under the NICS prevails over the conflicting provision of this chapter.
As added by P.L.17-1997, SEC.8. Amended by P.L.190-2006, SEC.5.

It says if the state participates in NICS (which IN does) then if any provision in the IN law conflicts with federal law then federal law overrides IN law.

Federal law doesn't allow for an exemption to the NICS check for IN residents who have a LTCH. I've heard it used to be that way but not any more.

Here is a list (from the BATFE website) that shows which state permits allow an exemption to the NICS check. Note IN says "NONE" which means even if an IN resident has a LTCH there is NO EXEMPTION to the NICS check. (note: the title of the webpage says something about resident aliens the text doesn't specify)

ATF Online - Sale of firearms to aliens admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa

Upon further investigation here is when & why the BATFE NICS requirement changed:

ATF Online - Open Letter to All Indiana Federal Firearms Licensees - Notice of Amendment

On the five day wait:

Again tell him to read further down in the same chapter of IN law he showed you:

IC 35-47-2.5-4
Dealer requirements before sale, rent, trade, or transfer
Sec. 4. (a) A dealer may not sell, rent, trade, or transfer from the dealer's inventory a handgun to a person until the dealer has done all of the following:
(1) Obtained from the prospective purchaser a completed and signed Form 4473 as specified in section 3 of this chapter.
(2) Contacted NICS:
(A) by telephone; or
(B) electronically;
to request a background check on the prospective purchaser.
(3) Received authorization from NICS to transfer the handgun to the prospective purchaser.
(b) The dealer shall record the NICS transaction number on Form 4473 and retain Form 4473 for auditing purposes.

If he, in fact, contacts NICS they will tell him (for the most part) "instantly" (i.e. no wait) whether you are approved to receive the guns. There is nothing in the law that says there is a 5 day wait.

He needs to get with the program & you need to find another FFL.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Sounds to me like you need to contact the BATF about this misinformed and deliberately ignorant bubba.

He's NOT following the law.

Also, have you checked the BATF website to see if his FFL licenses are current and valid?

-J-

 

[curraheeguns]

I don't think any INDIANA code will relieve an FFL from having to follow FEDERAL code.

Amen, he is asking for trouble.

 

[k12lts]

AFTER I get my guns!

After the deal is finally done please let us know the name of this shop. This guy is totally ignorant of the law.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

As the earlier poster said, keep your cool, do the wait, get your guns, then get another FFL. Whether he's a bubba or not, following the regs is crucial. The more we all keep it street legal, the better off we are. Whether you decide to post this guy's name or not, and even after you have your firearms, politeness is gonna be your ally. No need to change weirdness into ugliness. Remember what Sophocles says.
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[revance]

I agree that this needs reported to the BATF. Otherwise this guy is going to get himself (and possibly customers) into a heap of trouble.

Sadly many dealers DON'T know the laws, I was recently in a shop where the owner insisted "No Gun" signs had the power of law behind them and admitted to carrying in schools. When I mentioned that any land owned by the school was a no-no he said there was nothing they could charge you with. I simply told him it was a felony, it was strict liability (so you don't have to know you are breaking the law) and left.