358wssm

[fireball168]

Here is the chamber print I've been sent from D-Tech customers to make brass off of.

Dies are readily available, 25 WSSM brass should be off backorder by the end of the month if Winchester holds to plan.

 

[Skip]

The last 25WSSM brass I got, 2 weeks ago, was some of the worst I have seen. The primer hole is keyhole shaped!

That is one reason I went to 243WSSM AND 223WSSM brass. Just me though.

 

[Scotmak]

That's the print fireball!

 

[kludge]

A couple interesting things about that reamer print...

1. The chamber length is 1.6802" which is the same as the standard WSSM chamber. This means that trimming the brass to 1.625" is not needed, or probably even wanted, just squaring up the case mouth should be enough. My chamber length is 1.635" so I have to trim to 1.625" (the former max legal length) or less. Since the max legal length is now 1.8", trimming to 1.625" or less is no longer a legal necessity. Your trim to length should probably be 1.665" to 1.670" -- if your brass even ends up long enough to trim. If not, just trim it to square up the case mouth, and expect a little growth on the first firing (maybe 0.010" to 0.015").

2. The neck diameter is 0.393" so neck turning might not be necessary, but I think probably you'll need to turn just a little. You'll have to make a dummy round without turning and measure the neck diameter with the bullet in place, and measure it to see how tight you are. My guess is that turning your necks to ~0.015" would be good. 0.004" to 0.005" of clearance is fine for a hunting rifle, but maybe another 0.001" would be OK for a semi-auto. In my bolt action I'm at about 0.003" to 0.004" of neck clearance.

3. Shoulder angle is 30 degrees, same as the .25 WSSM, so use that brass if you can.

 

[Scotmak]

So why is no one selling this ammo? It seems like there is a market for it.

 

[Skip]

From the other cases I have used, I can tell you that the 243WSSM case's neck will turn out bigger than .393" on a few. Nothing consistent that you could count on. I can get a .392" neck into my Encore BUT, it has to be on the end of the neck closer to the shoulder. Of the cases I have done, mostly 243WSSM, the necks seem to taper a bit in their "as sized" state. The 25WSSM is not as bad and neither were the 223WSSM.

My dies make the shoulder angle right from these other cases but there is no way you can get them to be as long as a standard WSSM caliber. The LONGEST ones I have run into while making them is 1.625" after necking up, and they were not square as I like them either!

I guess I will ask a silly question but, does that matter as much in how it fits the chamber at that point as much as it is that the cases are made consistently. I know there is a crossover point where is certainly would matter but, I am speaking from a central point. .015" versus .012" to .013". As long as they were all one or another, would it matter?

Case life, yeah, I understand that but, I am talking about accuracy.

 

[Skip]

So why is no one selling this ammo? It seems like there is a market for it.

Some people are but, they are doing it for their customers only. Just Hunt in Wabash is selling ammo and cases too and they are for the chamber that is cut to match the Redding dies.

Some have made their cases proprietary. That's fine but, in order to get this round into commercial production, it is going to take a lot of folks wanting it, and they are going to have to decide on one specific "pattern" to make that happen.

I have heard that there were over 100 variants of the Indiana Deer Cartridge floating around at one time. I was at the range the other month and a tool & die guy had his very own caliber he had come up with using a belted case.

So, until we get together, decide on just what we want, it is doubtful that the big names are going to pick it up.

I hope it goes commercial, I really do, and I hope it is the one that I have that does it. I have a TON of money invested in making my brass and the two Encores I have in this caliber. I WANT it to go on and be a commercially offered round and I hope talking about it helps.

 

[Broom_jm]

I don't see ANY chance that the Indiana-specific 1.625" or 1.800" 35-caliber variants are going to be standardized by SAAMI. They are too complicated, with too few interested buyers. Even within the state there are probably no more than a few hundred guys who are willing to deal with the case forming chores necessary to shoot a 358WSSM or 358WSM.

When Indiana changed to the 1.800" regulations, they introduced a very sensible and simple option for those willing to handload: The 35 Remington.

You buy cheap factory dies, an unmodified factory rifle, trim cases .120" and load as per any recipe in a reloading book. Nothing could be easier and with the FTX/LVR loads, you've got legitimate 200 yard performance. Why fuss with anything more complicated and expensive?

Some guys will still want as much performance as possible out of their 35 wildcat, but the "easy" 35 Remington option will prevent the WSSM and WSM variants from ever becoming a factory offering.

 

[Skip]

You may be right Broom, and there is good logic behind what you say BUT, I am hoping that you are wrong!

Tell you how bad I hope you are wrong.....I was looking at a 300WSM Winchester 70 to turn into a 358WSM just the other day!

 

[buhmannc]

Hi I just got my upper from mike I ordered 12/17/12. Its a 358/25, 22in shillen select match barrel and bilet slick sided receiver.

 

[buhmannc]

Hi I just got my upper from mike I ordered 12/17/12. Its a 358/25, 22in shillen select match barrel and bilet slick sided receiver.

 

[Onebad06vtx]

I reload for the 358 wssm and could help you out.
You can buy dies from hornady.
Ski rifles in Pendelton Indiana is building 358 wssm rifles and ar's,along with the 35 hoosier.
I have to neck turn my brass to fit the chamber, and Federal brass is FAR BETTER then the winchester junk.

 

[ScouT6a]

I wanted a "deer legal" AR to hunt in Indiana with a couple of years ago so I did alot of research on the commonly available big bores at the time. .50 Beowulf, .458 Socom and .450 Bushmaster. I wasn't planning on jumping into reloading for the new caliber right away but wanted that option down the road without alot of fuss. (forming brass, neck turning, reaming, trimming etcetera) I enjoy reloading, I just have too many other things going in my life to devote that much time to it.
I looked at a .50 Beowulf upper, hands on. Truthfully for the money you are paying out they look cheap. No muzzle brake/flash suppressor on the basic model. (yes you can add one for $60-70 but you are already paying $750 for an upper. It should be included, in my opinion. Standard GI round forearm. And ammo was pretty much nonexistent then.
.458 Socom uppers looked pretty good for the money. Where hard to find then. Yeah, more bullet options on reloading (that seems to be the Socom fans mantra) but how many bullet options do you really need for one specific game species? Whitetails are not huge, they are thin skinned and with good shot placement easy to put down. (we are talking bullets in the .45-.50 caliber range here) Factory ammo for the Socom was what turned me away from it. At an average of $3 per round, it just seemed over the top to me.
The .450 Bushmaster uppers offer alot for the money. Included flash suppressor, flat top upper, free floated aluminum handguard and the fit and finish is top notch. Factory ammo prices were reasonable and it could be found readily. Reloading down the road looked to be straight forward and factory dies were affordable. Granted there was only one major manufacturer making the ammunition but I heard rumors that Remington was picking it up too and with it's popularity among hog hunters also, I knew it wasn't going to be a flash in the pan.
I ordered me a Bushmaster upper and three boxes of Hornady ammo and haven't regretted it since. The thing is a tack driver. I put a red dot sight on it last year for season and was getting 1 inch groups at 100 yards, leaned up against a tree. Two rounds during deer season put two fat does in the freezer and wow was it impressive on performance. One shot was 10 yards from a tree stand and one was 15 yards from the ground. The stand shot deer went about forty yards leaving a blood trail Stevie Wonder could follow. The second deer stood up out of her bedding area, I shot, she reared straight up in the air and fell over on her back, grave yard dead. I have since mounted a good piece of glass on it and I am getting sub MOA groups out to 250 yards. I am still buying factory ammo for around $20-25 box too. With results like that, a box of ammunition will last awhile.
Just my two cents. Others mileage will vary.

 

[Scotmak]

buhmannc Awesome man! How do you like it? I ordered mine in mine in feb this year. I highly doubt I will have mine by firearm opener.
Onebad06vtx I would like to take you up on that. What are we looking at cost wise. I think dies will be sent along with the upper.

 

[indianabob]

I have a 358 wssm on a encore 2 for 2 on deer dropped in tracks at ranges of 30 yrds, and 70 yrds. love the gun.

 

[indianabob]

one question I plan on reloading with a 650 Dillon is anybody here doing this? first problem I ran into is the charge die will need to be custom machined. any feedback welcomed. thanks, Bob

 

[Broom_jm]

one question I plan on reloading with a 650 Dillon is anybody here doing this? first problem I ran into is the charge die will need to be custom machined. any feedback welcomed. thanks, Bob

OK, so you're loading hunting ammo, to be fired from a single-shot rifle, but you want to crank 'em out on a 650?

For the number of rounds you're likely to shoot each year, why not keep it simple with a single-stage or turret style press? Heck, c'mon over and we'll batch load 'em on my RockChucker.

 

[indianabob]

It's a good point I have a lee press and have reloaded the 358 on it, I just feel like I need to shoot much more and you know the excitement with a new press !

 

[djones]

For my 35 Remington, I reload 200 at a time on the Dillon 650. Sometimes it makes me wonder if I would be just about as fast and more consistent with the single stage.

I like the 650 for 38 special, 223 etc but I dont know about for my lower volume, I like taking my time with the 100 round batches.

 

[Scotmak]

So does anyone know where I can buy some 25wssm brass?