2016 centerfire deer rifle push?

[Hookeye]

I worked gun and bow retail for a few years. My poor view of the average shooter, deer hunter, or person in general..........shall remain.

 

[BigMatt]

I worked gun and bow retail for a few years. My poor view of the average shooter, deer hunter, or person in general..........shall remain.

Average shooters are in all 50 states. Should rifle hunting be outlawed in all states?

Why is Indiana different?

 

[avboiler11]

Because, obviously, Hoosiers who hunt and shoot are more dumberer than people in the other 49 states.

Let us not confuse the issue with the basic fact that none of the pearl clutching, EveryBowhunter For Hunter Safety worst case scenarios play themselves out in any state that allows modern centerfire rifles for whitetail, including the state just south of the Ohio River.

 

[BigMatt]

The problem here is that some hunters are afraid of other people in the woods with rifles.

I am not trying to bash anyone, I just don't see a good argument for the opposition to real rifles and I am trying to get a real answer.

If there is anyone who can explain why Indiana is different from most other states in the union, I would like to hear it.

 

[cschwanz]

Dount there will be anything on the table for next year. My guess is a revised version of this year's plan in 2017. I think they scared people when they basically went for "anything goes". I'm guessing loosing restrictions in a similar fashion to what we have now, but to allow .243/260/.308 sized rounds, maybe 30-30 and 30-06? I think everyone got scared when they thought of shooting a deer with a larger magnum like 300 RUM, etc.

 

[AtTheMurph]

Buckshot is not a substitute for making a good shot through an opening in the brush. It's a poor excuse for a deer hunting round. Loses energy faster than slugs. Deflects worse on brush. If you can't collect a deer with an accurate slug gun, buckshot is not gonna solve your problem.

And shotgun slugs are no safer than rifle bullets when used for hunting. Slugs will actually travel farther than rifles bullets when fired in normal hunting situations, i.e., level gun shots. If the danger is to be caused by longer effective ranges then shotguns are more dangerous.

 

[Willie]

Us hunters did not help the cause for sure but the folks that the d DNR paid the most attention to was the landowners. The anti-rifle guys put on a scare tactic and it worked..

Probably best bet would be regional such as southern Indiana OK and northern stays slug, PCRs and MZs.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Blood in the streets...eerrrmm trees?? Same old argument with no facts to support it. As has been stated, show me what makes us dumber with rifles here in Indiana.

 

[jblomenberg16]

I would be for increasing the case length a bit to allow some of the calibers listed. Especially since we can already hunt with pistols that for all intents and purposes can shoot the rifle rounds with similar velocity to an actual rifle with a stock on it. Albeit, depending on the shooter, those rounds could be less accurate since they don't have the benefit of a stock to help steady their aim. So the fears of high powered rifle rounds zingning randomly through the woods is unfounded in my opinion...we have that already today.

I do think that regulations that does somewhat limit the longer range cartridges would be worth considering just in the fact that Indiana (as I'm sure other states struggle with as well) does seem to have a lot of "glassers" that drive around country roads, looking for deer with binoculars, then pull over and take some long range shots at them, most likely onto private property. They can kill their deer, run onto the property and claim it, and be gone in a few minutes and nobody is the wiser. The odds of anyone seeing, or realizing they are trespassing are fairly low. Many of those guys are already using illegal calibers, and breaking laws. But making it easier to do could cause additional problems. I know, that is a slippery slope...as I'm generally in favor of less laws and relying on self discipline.

The reality is that people seem to do really dumb stuff during hunting season that you'd never think they'd do in any other circumstances. Buck fever, or blood lust, makes people make some very poor decisions. As a land owner that has had to deal with more and more trespassing each year, I would generally favor some regulations that effectively limited shots to inside of say 200yds. That would generally put people in or near the woods, vs. hunting open fields from their pick-ups on the side of the road in many cases. I don't know how to do that, but that would say things like 30-30 and lower would be in that class, but .270win, 308win, 30-06, etc. would still be disallowed. Maybe even a power factor window for rifle rounds? Would be hard to police, and would keep the honest guys honest, but could be a compromise.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, and very open to other's thoughts on it. It is a very slippery slope. 50 years ago, with the discipline that society had, I think we could have pulled if off with today's deer herd numbers. With today's society and lack of discipline, I'm not so sure opening up regulations is the right thing. My concern is primarily poaching, and to secondary effect, safety. I sit in a stand about 500yds from a road, and have watched deer between me and the road that were father than I would shoot with my 300BLK, or a 12Gage with a slug, but would be in range for someone on the road to pull off, fire a 30-06 at the deer, and potentially hit me on the ricochet if they missed the deer. Not only am I in danger, but there is a chance that the deer that I've been working hard to hunt is killed by someone that was hunting on my property without my permission, and perhaps even in violation of other state laws. I've watched the trucks drive up and down the country road, slowing down to look at said deer, then seeing me, or perhaps my truck, and realizing (fortunately) that there was another hunter near by, drive off, probably towards another section of property they think is isolated.

I've also talked to the trespasser on the property, who, while standing directly under a bright yellow "No Trespassing" sign, said he thought it was ok to hunt on our land because he didn't see anyone else hunting it. Allow that same guy to hunt with a 30-06 and he no longer has to even go onto my property...he just sits in his truck on the public road or right of way, and then shoots onto my property.

I'm not at all in the camp of "blood in the woods" from errant high powered rounds from guys taking stupid shots in the woods. As others have said, a 12gage slug can go just as far and be just as lethal in that .000001% chance of an accident. I just worry that completely opening up to full powered rifle rounds could have other consequences. Would be great to see if that concern is at all justified based on data from other states.

 

[JimH]

From the looks of the deer kill numbers,it looks like we are scraping by with what we are currently allowed to use.I own 10 cf rifles,from .243 to .300 Win. mag that would qualify under the rules proposed last year,would love to deer hunt with them,and have no concerns about rifles being less safe.I do have concerns with to many deer being killed(mainly in the summer-depredation,when they have fawns).Too hear some people talk it's amazing we are able to kill any deer without cf rifles.

 

[BigMatt]

From the looks of the deer kill numbers,it looks like we are scraping by with what we are currently allowed to use.I own 10 cf rifles,from .243 to .300 Win. mag that would qualify under the rules proposed last year,would love to deer hunt with them,and have no concerns about rifles being less safe.I do have concerns with to many deer being killed(mainly in the summer-depredation,when they have fawns).Too hear some people talk it's amazing we are able to kill any deer without cf rifles.

If you are worried about the population, then limit the tags.

 

[cschwanz]

Poaching is not a legitimate excuse for arguing against normal centerfire rifles. Just because you can legally hunt with it doesn't mean more people are going to illegally hunt with it. A poacher is going to poach no matter what the regs are! You can't hunt at night, but poachers do it. You cant shoot from a road but poachers do it. You cant spotlight deer but poachers do it. We can't hunt with centerfire rifles now, but guess what....poachers do it!

 

[AGarbers]

Poaching is not a legitimate excuse for arguing against normal centerfire rifles. Just because you can legally hunt with it doesn't mean more people are going to illegally hunt with it. A poacher is going to poach no matter what the regs are! You can't hunt at night, but poachers do it. You cant shoot from a road but poachers do it. You cant spotlight deer but poachers do it. We can't hunt with centerfire rifles now, but guess what....poachers do it!

I agree. This is the same argument anti-2A folks try to use on handguns and high-capacity magazines. If you want to get into that thought pattern, then you better advocate researching what vehicles they use and make them illegal.

 

[Willie]

Blood in the streets...eerrrmm trees?? Same old argument with no facts to support it. As has been stated, show me what makes us dumber with rifles here in Indiana.

I agree...but that is what a DNR rep told me..

 

[AtTheMurph]

Wisconsin went statewide rifle two years ago with no increase in shooting incidents. They have close to 700,000 licensed deer hunters for their gun season which runs only 9 days and they kill about 200,000 deer. I would guess that the vast majority of hunters in that state use center-fire rifles.

I have also read through all of the hunting related shooting injuries from their gun deer season, as I do every year. Only one incident in 2015 could possibly be attributed to a rifle and that was during coyote hunting. However the person shot was 800' away, certainly close enough to hit with a shotgun slug, but even here in Indiana we can hunt coyotes with center-fire rifles. Another Level

And the 2014 report after going statewide rifle.
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2014HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf

2013 http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2013HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf

2012 http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2012HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf

2011 http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2011HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf

2010 http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2010HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf

2009 http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2009HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf

There seems to be a theme with the vast majority of these shooting incidents and it isn't a rifle.

 

[JimH]

Possibly a compromise of sorts-since many of the proposed cf rifles (.243,.270,.300 win. mag etc.)would easily double,if not triple the area that could be covered from a hunters stand,how about cutting the # of days to gun hunt in half? Most shotguns and muzzle loaders are 100 yard guns,on the average.If you can effectively
shoot 100 yards,you can cover an area of app.6.5 acres.If you extend your range to 200 yards,you raise the covered area to almost 26 acres.

 

[avboiler11]

I think a compromise is in my initial post:

Allow chamberings with the current 1.80" case length limit, but reduce the minimum caliber down to .243. The case length would serve to limit powder capacity for those more concerned about errant long range shots.

Now you've opened up things like 6x45, 6BR, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, and 300 Blackout and a whole host of others at are already legal to hunt with in a pistol configuration.

 

[7mmRM]

Poaching is not a legitimate excuse for arguing against normal centerfire rifles. Just because you can legally hunt with it doesn't mean more people are going to illegally hunt with it. A poacher is going to poach no matter what the regs are! You can't hunt at night, but poachers do it. You cant shoot from a road but poachers do it. You cant spotlight deer but poachers do it. We can't hunt with centerfire rifles now, but guess what....poachers do it!

Excellent post.. Along with the other posts that have mention bag limits in regards to population decline.

IMO, the whole thing is just silly. Only in my beloved state of Indiana can one hunt with an unwieldy 338 Lapua Magnum handgun, but God forbid one adds 10" of barrel and a butt stock to make it more controllable. And to think the anti rifle folks were up in arms about "safety". It's laughable at best.

With the current .358/1.8 regs. It took about no time for wildcatters to come up with serious chamberings that fit within the "regs". The 358 Grant 1.8, 358 WSM 1.8, and the like are true magnum chamberings by any definition. Loaded correctly, are capable of taking deer a Loooong way out there.

 

[Woobie]

There are some thoughtful opinions floated out there, such as some in this thread, but most of what I hear on this sounds like every other gun control argument, backed up by the same amount of ignorance. It stings a bit, though, to hear it from people who otherwise are pro-gun.

 

[bwframe]

There are some thoughtful opinions floated out there, such as some in this thread, but most of what I hear on this sounds like every other gun control argument, backed up by the same amount of ignorance. It stings a bit, though, to hear it from people who otherwise are pro-gun.

People have different motives for their opinions on this. Associating all opposed to changing the regs as in favor of gun control is wrong.