1911 Learning Curve?

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  • thompal

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    Thanks guys, and sorry I wasnt clear on it, but I dont feel releasing the magazine would ever be a problem as I have shot 1911's and have never had the problem. I was just using that example that I had read to basically ask if 1911's were really meticulous on how they are handled and cared for as compared to other guns.

    I can only give my experience. My dad taught me to shoot his WWII issue Colt 1911-A1 when I was about 6 or 7, and I instantly fell in love. It was my favorite handgun of his to shoot. When I was about 8, he told me that if I was going to shoot it, I was going to clean it. He handed me a WWII Bluejacket's Manual, and told me he'd check it out when I was done. He and I put countless 1000s of rounds through that pistol, and I don't remember ever having a failure of any kind. And that was with all the maintenance being done by an 8 year old. (Hoppes #9, a bore brush, and 3-in-1 oil)

    In the late 70s/early 80s I bought a 1942 made Remington Rand 1911-A1 that had seen LOTS of use. I've since many thousands of rounds through it, and had one magazine-related failure last year (slide failed to lock back). The magazine spring was worn out (original magazine). I wouldn't even try to guess how many rounds this pistol has had through it. The guy I bought it from said he had it for about 20 years, and apparently had rarely cleaned it. The barrel looks like hell. It shoots smooth as glass though, so I'm not changing a thing on it until something breaks (probably sometime in 2020!).

    Basically, anyone who says the 1911-A1 is prone to failure, is unreliable, is finicky, and requires a lot of maintenance, is either full of crap, or is buying oddball mutant designs. Just buy a 1911, have an 8 year old maintain it with Hoppes and sewing machine oil, and put a couple of hundred thousand rounds through it.

    In nearly 50 years of shooting a 1911, I have never once dropped the magazine while I was firing it. I did have the slide bite me ONCE when I was 9 or 10 when think I limp-wristed it. That's a mistake you only make once!
     

    Brina

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    In the next year I plan to purchase a 1911 ( will be the fourth I have owned, kinda fell into them and got rid of them for other something I wanted more), I plan to use this pistol to learn the platform. Springfield Armory I am planing this one, adding VZ gunner grips, and a 10-8 flat trigger.

    that's good info jeremiah. i'm looking into getting a 1911 in the next month or two. i've heard quite a few members comment about getting out and back into 1911, and regretting selling off theirs.
    any insight into those comments? are they just that awesome? i personally have never shot one (just plastic guns), and plan to do quite a bit of testing when i get into a place where i'm able to purchase one.
     

    JetGirl

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    I didnt give Bad information or soothing read on the Internet

    I don't even know what that means ^.

    I like glocks, and I like a high grip. I can repeat the failure to engage the grip safety for anyone. My high grip pushes the grip safety up and not in.
    I just now tried to replicate this with every 1911 I own (except my carry, which I didn't want to unload). With my hand as high up as the swept beaver tail (and stock, too) let my hand be forced, and trying to NOT let my palm contact the rest of the grip safety(kind of holding my hand *away* from it, but still needing to reach the trigger)...it still worked fine.
    I don't know what the heck you're doing...but whatever it is seems odd.
    If the gun is in your hand and you have a proper grip, the grip safety is depressed.
    Sooooo.... :dunno:
     

    mssmith44

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    The problem is riding the thumb safety with the thumb assuming a right hand grip on the pistol. I have Para with a old style Ed Brown grip safey with out the memory bump. It has a thumb safety that has the shelf too high. Sometimes the grip safety will not disengage with the thumb on the thumb safety. I have a para limited with the memory bump that seems to work with the thumb on the thumb safety. But I let my thumb go below the thumb safety once it is disengaged. The easiest thing for me is to shoot my revolver and forget about the thumb safety and grip safety.
     

    dom1104

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    BS.

    All this "1911s take more care blah blah blah" is spouted by people who dont shoot 1911s.


    Step 1. Buy 1911.

    Step 2. Shoot it like its its job. <hint... it is.>

    Step 3. Replace recoil spring on schedule <oooooo hard.>

    Step 4. Repeat step 2.

    Its just a gun people.. not some magic machine that needs a certified mechanic.

    Good greif.
     

    LPMan59

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    BS.

    All this "1911s take more care blah blah blah" is spouted by people who dont shoot 1911s.


    Step 1. Buy 1911.

    Step 2. Shoot it like its its job. <hint... it is.>

    Step 3. Replace recoil spring on schedule <oooooo hard.>

    Step 4. Repeat step 2.

    Its just a gun people.. not some magic machine that needs a certified mechanic.

    Good greif.

    this has been my experience. i admit i dont shoot a whole lot though.
     

    dom1104

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    Let me say something else. The reach to the mag release on a 1911 is LONG. VERY long.

    So long in fact, some of us have to use grips like this

    IMG_6089.jpg


    So either someone has some orangutan fingers, or you would have to REALLY try hard to accidentally hit the mag release.

    So to the OP, I have no idea what that guy is talking about, I have large hands and STILL need scoop grips to hit the mag release quickly.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    I didnt give Bad information or soothing read on the Internet, I relayed something I have seen first hand at least a dozen times prior to a trip back
    To springfeild.


    I like glocks, and I like a high grip. I can repeat the failure to engage the grip safety for anyone. My high grip pushes the grip safety up and not in. If the safer hinged from the bottom ala colt 1903 pocket hamerless it would be a non issue.

    I can see that with a grip like that. A dove tail grip safety tends to illuminate this. I have large hands and the 1911 just fits me. No knock on any other Marque/brand/style but the 1911 to me is the gun. They will all inflict mortal wounds and do the job intended but there is just something about they way it fits me.
    That said, I am constantly changing and evolving my grip to improve performance, comfort etc.
    Many have posted different ways to hold a hand gun and I have tried a lot of them until I have ended up with the grip I now use and am still refining it.
    I do not move from gun to gun with out some tweaks to get the ergonomics of that piece to work better for me.
     

    drillsgt

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    BS.

    All this "1911s take more care blah blah blah" is spouted by people who dont shoot 1911s.


    Step 1. Buy 1911.

    Step 2. Shoot it like its its job. <hint... it is.>

    Step 3. Replace recoil spring on schedule <oooooo hard.>

    Step 4. Repeat step 2.

    Its just a gun people.. not some magic machine that needs a certified mechanic.

    Good greif.

    My thoughts exactly!
     

    repeter1977

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    BS.

    All this "1911s take more care blah blah blah" is spouted by people who dont shoot 1911s.


    Step 1. Buy 1911.

    Step 2. Shoot it like its its job. <hint... it is.>

    Step 3. Replace recoil spring on schedule <oooooo hard.>

    Step 4. Repeat step 2.

    Its just a gun people.. not some magic machine that needs a certified mechanic.

    Good greif.

    Agree, if you have ANY firearm that does not do this, trade it in, sell it, destroy it, cause it is not worth it.
     

    Jeremiah

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    LAV 1911 Operator Course January 7-8 [Archive] - Glock Talk
    AAR Larry Vickers 2 Day 1911 Operator Class Part One - 1911Forum

    AAR: Vickers Tactical 1911 Operator's Course 6/6-6/7 2009 - M4Carbine.net Forums

    http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/

    http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2010/07/kimber-warrior.html

    http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2011/11/aar-duty-1911-class-liberty-hill-tx.html
    http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2012/06/10-8-1911-classes-pa-aar-la-class.html

    AAR: 10-8 Duty 1911 Course, Austin, TX 10/8-9 - 10-8 Forums

    AAR: 10-8 Duty 1911 Course, Austin, TX 10/8-9 - 10-8 Forums (very detailed)

    Choosing a 1911 for Duty Use ( READ)


    These links spell it out pretty clearly. ITs not that a 1911 can't run well, its that what you can buy under a $1000 today likely isn't set up correctly. Run hard many will fail. Keep in mind when you read these links most of the guns that do choke aren't $400 dollar RIA, they tend to be more expensive guns in classes that shoot $200-700 dollars worth of ammunition and $400+ in tuition.

    To the OP, I have this to say. Any gun on any forum is going to have fanboys, they will defend their favorite platform. right now look at glock fanboys who won't admit glock has messed up there extractors on the gen 3 pistols, its being fixed, and aftermarket companies are also providing solutions because it does happen. I have provided you with the information I have picked up over years of reading. a few years of shooting, and being around shooters, I vetted the opinions people provided me with against their experience. a guy who spent a career as an armorer for a department that issued the 1911 seems like a valid opinion to me. Guys that shoot competitively 10k rounds + a year, seems like a solid opinion to me. They tend not to be a religiously devoted to a platform, they learn what goes wrong, and how to fix it, and how to prevent and or test for the various issues that can arise.
     

    Jeremiah

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    that's good info jeremiah. i'm looking into getting a 1911 in the next month or two. i've heard quite a few members comment about getting out and back into 1911, and regretting selling off theirs.
    any insight into those comments? are they just that awesome? i personally have never shot one (just plastic guns), and plan to do quite a bit of testing when i get into a place where i'm able to purchase one.

    Before and After... a Colt National Match for The LAV - 1911Forum

    LOOK AT THE THING! the 1911 is an aesthetic marvel. It's an iconic piece of history, Its well represented, and has been in use in various forms for over a 100 years. People that sell them off either ( broad generalization coming), sold the gun for need of cash, or out of boredom with the platform/desire to try something new. They are interesting, and as a toy hard to beat. as a weapon.. they work, but technology has brought us better weapons. http://gunner777.wordpress.com/2011/09/12/interesting-news-from-the-spec-ops-world/ While guys like larry vickers, Ken Hackathorn, and Hilton yam will never give up their 1911's, they primarily shot and train with 9mm plastic guns ( LAV with a history with the glock 19, and recently picking up a PPQ, Hilton probably has some of the best data on teh M&P 9mm and its manifestations)

    You also see nostalgia with the 1911 crowd, "it was my {insert family member here} gun", "its what I learned to shoot with" etc. If you have only shot plastic guns when you go to pick up a 1911 you will notice
    -the heft
    -the grip ( some love it I prefer a glock)

    when you shoot it you'll notice a different recoil than you have probably ever felt. ( in the rare even you get a hold of lightweight 1911 with a stainless slide you will really notice the recoil)

    you will notice teh trigger. Depending on who's 1911 it is, and how they like their trigger it could be like anything. If you are used to glocks/M&p's, HK's, or revolvers you will notice the considerably lack of take up by comparison. which means instead of squeezing the trigger until it breaks you will just put pressure on the trigger till it breaks, many people like this. you may or may not.
     

    JetGirl

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    you will notice teh trigger. Depending on who's 1911 it is, and how they like their trigger it could be like anything.

    In my own personal experience having handled/owned/shot a variety of actions...The absolute worst single action trigger (be it a 1911 or a cocked revolver) is still insanely better than the best "worked on/trigger job" double action/striker fired.

    Meh. Edit; see below
    eyes_finder_pointing_down1.gif
     
    Last edited:

    JetGirl

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    By the way...

    Be aware, I have had three instances where I had to readjust my grip to activate my grip safety.

    I just now tried to replicate this with every 1911 I own (except my carry, which I didn't want to unload).
    ...
    I don't know what the heck you're doing...but whatever it is seems odd.
    If the gun is in your hand and you have a proper grip, the grip safety is depressed.
    Sooooo.... :dunno:
    I noticed your location. If such a time presents itself that you feel like demonstrating your stoppage creating method of grip in a 1911, I'd love to meet up at Ideal Fish & Game to observe your approach and examine what technique is producing this outcome for you. Range time and ammo is on me.
     

    gunbunnies

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    Well anything man made will fail and if you look around the internet long enough you will find enough proof of your opinion to feel good about picking on a platform. The 1911A1 has failures, back to being made by humans... but all platforms have issues. Pick your platform and work it and enjoy it...

    The 1911A1 is made by almost every firearms manufacturer that is in business today in some way. The available after market parts is not matched by even the Glock which almost has the same following as the 1911A1.

    The good points about the 1911A1.....

    Grip, sight base, trigger consistency, solid safety mechanisms. a real hammer based firing system...

    45ACP, and how many different calibers can you dream up along with all the customization available in slide lengths and different types of parts.

    If she's tight, she's dang acurate, if she's loose she will hit the side of a barn but run with mud in the internals...

    History....

    Now lets throw the Glocks under the bus since we wanted to pick on the 1911A1's in your above posts...

    Depending on the series of Glock you purchased in the past Glock wasn't pressure testing thier barrels and it resulted in some blown up barrels under normal standard ammo pressures. I know of one individual who had one blow up in his hands.. he still has all of his fingers but....

    The striker design is intersting... but realizing that the trigger activates the firing pins forward motion by removing itself from the firing pins track and that the firng pin is always under spring tension to go forward while walking around with the dang thing in your holster all day.... wellll...

    The trigger has the only resemblance of a safety on the gun in the front of the trigger which you touch and disengage in order to fire the gun... No second thought required and the reason for more self induced accidental discharges in the history of a firearms platform.

    Atleast with the revolver which has no safety on it you have to cock the hammer back with the motion of the trigger being pulled all the way through which doesn't make touching the trigger to get the AD to take place easy at all...

    Anyway's we can pick on any and all platforms available... they were made by us...

    The 1911A1 is just as fine of a platform as any other one out there, the Browning, the Beretta, the SIG, HK, and even the Glock are all fine platforms to carry and use.

    This rant coming from a guy that has actually shot a lot of ammo down range through the different platforms. To the tune of a solid 10 years of shooting 2 nights a week and all weekend... on top of the rest of the years when I wasn't quite as active on the firing line....

    What DOM1104 said... buy it and try it and see if it's for you...
     

    ghitch75

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    you all are makin' to much about this grip thing.......grab it like your shakin' hands with an old friend and blast away!!!......it has the most natural grip of any pistol every made....
     

    JetGirl

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    you all are makin' to much about this grip thing.......grab it like your shakin' hands with an old friend and blast away!!!......it has the most natural grip of any pistol every made....

    I'd still like to see it for myself since I tried with half a dozen 1911s and can not replicate.
     

    gunbunnies

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    I gotta agree with JetGirl, the whole grip thing has to be hard to do with the 1911A1 platform... Now I've seen it done with the skinny grip safety on a XD when wearing winter gloves...
     

    breas1

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    I bought a springfield 1911 gi as my first hand gun. I've probably spent more money making it closer to the springfield loaded than i should have but it was my first hand gun and its a 1911. They do require a little more upkeep. I've had glocks that i didnt clean for 400 rounds which isnt a lot for a glock but i'd never do that to my 1911.
    I really like my springfield and havent had any problems with it. Good magazines are a must. Practice is key, and a good holster if you plan to carry it. Not to draw away from INGO but there is a 1911 forum that has a lot of good advice for the new 1911 owner.
     

    ghitch75

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    They do require a little more upkeep. I've had glocks that i didnt clean for 400 rounds which isnt a lot for a glock but i'd never do that to my 1911.

    they do?.....i have one in the safe that hasn't seen a cleanin' in close to 1k of smokey 200gr LRN and is still will run like a swiss watch.....i didn't think you where supposed to clean glock's:dunno:......1911's are the AK of pistol's in my book....
     
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