Most decent 1911's will shoot better than the operator. Mine all do.
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1911 Heaven...
- Thread starter cundiff5535
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Most decent 1911's will shoot better than the operator. Mine all do.
Sweet dreams my friend!!
What a sweeeeeeet collection! 
Yeah.....me to.
Ive gotten a few PM's asking for a rundown of what I like most and what my experiences have been across the board.... So here goes. Again, just my personal opinion so if you disagree no big deal, I know how we are (1911 owners). I was asked whats next, and whats the best for the money...
First, the Bunker gun (First one BBQ Pistol) is by far the single most impressive pistol I have handled to this point in my life. Its that good! Its also my favorite handgun I own. Its dead nuts accurate and just on another level in terms of quality. I was at a smaller range with it the other day, I was shooting in the 4th lane (8 total). 15 yards down, dead center X one hole 5 shot group. The whole damn range stopped and watched me shoot my next 45 rounds. Funny thing is, they all asked to shoot it, they all swore I was only shooting as good as I was because of the gun. Ill gladly admit it had a little to do with it but, most people just cant shoot. The pistol is a show stopper and far and away the best built 1911 I have! Buying a Custom gun is unlike buying anything else... You literally choose every option and feature on the gun. From cuts to sights, to finish, to whatever the heck you can think of. This was the second custom gun I have and its always awesome to work with the top smiths in the world on what you want you pistol to look like and feel like. The other thing that is really awesome about doing this kind of thing is, you literally become friends with these guys! I have now worked with Joe Chambers and Brandan Bunker and can you tell I talk to these guys a lot.... and not just about gun stuff. You get to know their values, families, work, etc... An example is The waiting list for a Joe gun is upwards of 6 years. Thats a long time to wait for a pistol. Over that time (2-3 years not for me), you just touch base to see how everything is. Same with Brandan... 8-12 months, we have gotten to be friends and I call him to talk shop a lot! Both Joe and B are both awesome guys and I think there is something to that. You 100% will not get that ordering a gun from Wilson, Crafter, NH, etc... Those are companies that have a bottom line and customer care reps. The chance of getting Bill Wilson on the line to just chat is slim to none. Anyway, I really enjoy the process of building a gun, getting feedback, learning, etc... of buying a full custom from guys who put out 8-12 guns a year.
Next for the collection will be 1 of 3 pistols... either another full Custom Bunker Arms from Brandan Bunker, A full custom BEC (Buisness End Custom) Lou Biando, or a SV Infinity pistol. Probably leaning toward the Bunker gun just because we have talked about whats next in line for me. I am very interested in getting a single stack from SVI as well. I do have a Black Knight Pinstripper on order from my friend Joe Chambers, but I am still 3 years out on that build. Really cant wait for that one!!
The best bang for the buck is 100% no doubt the Valor. Its very affordable and honestly, pretty close in quality to the guns I have that ran over 3K. I would put it right there with any of em
. The full rail TRP is really nice too, but at roughly 2K, I think I would take a CQB over it... just better parts and build. They are hard to find and none of the others on the market look anything like it.
If I was going to give a thought on companies etc.. I would say this.
Wilson has a lot of hype around it. They make a great pistols but, I can honestly say, I have had to send a few of them back to the factory. Couple that in with what I would consider crappy customer service and my thoughts on WC are slowly changing. Maybe my expectations were to high? Either way, we have had some issues over the last few years. Wilson makes a great pistol but, the quality control has slipped over the last few years. Also, their "lifetime warranty" is not really a life time warranty. Their in house finishers (for AT) are not very good. I have had finish application issues and Wilson just does not care. To me, that crap... esp because I have spent well over 20K on pistols with them. Oh well, not the end of the world and I am a very picky/OCD kind of person. I am probably being to picky, but when you spend over 3K on a pistol I think you have the right to be. I know it sounds like I am bashing Wilson... Overall I am happy with the pistols I have by them, they just leave me shaking my head from time to time.
Nighthawk... I LOVE these pistols!! I will say IMO they make the best semi custom gun out there (Crafter may be tops right now but, I do not own one). I have not had a single issue with any of them. Because of that, I have not had to call them to send a pistol back etc... I have heard they are not the best in terms of CS but, at this point the only CS I find to my liking is SA. The fact that I have not had to call NH makes me think they are just a step up from the rest! The fit, finish, and build quality just seem better than the others. I also like the fact that upgrades are built onto the price of the guns... Wilson you add everything. Dont get me wrong, you can spec the pistol exactly like you want but, they typically have a model that will be set up pretty close to the way you want it. Last HUGE point on the NH pistols... 1 GUNSMITH working on your guns. Thats a "supergrade" from Wilson. That is the single most impressive thing about NH. 100% happy with all my Hawks!
Ed Browns are certainly beautiful pistols and the SS pistol is what got me hooked on high end 1911's. I will say, there is something about that SS pistol that just feels "right" in my hand. The trigger is also the best (other than the Bunker gun). It breaks slightly before the rest so, due to not knowing when its going to fire I shoot it as good as, if not better than any of the others. I had the SS gun back once for some cosmetic work and inspection one time! Turnaround was about 2 weeks and it came back running like a top... As much crap as folks give Brown for the CS, I did not have a problem. Yeah, I paid for shipping to them etc... but, I also paid for shipping every time I sent a Wilson off as well. Nothing buy good stuff from these guys!
Baers are great value guns as well! I like them and I personally like the serrations Baer uses on his pistols. They are tight as hell... to the point most think there is something wrong with them
I like them but, old Les leaves something to be desired in finish and trigger. Once you get about 5K through his pistols, they get better! Thats just my opinion and I am sure most will say I am wrong. Never once had to call Les about an issue with the pistol so I cant comment on the CS. Never an issue with any of the pistols I have from them. I personally do not like the beaver tail he uses but again, thats my personal preference. Blending is nice just not as nice as the three I mentioned above. Also, other than the guns shooting lights out, my Baers are pretty standard. Unlike NH, you have to pay for every opinion you get on a Baer.
The Valor is a fantastic value in the 1911 world... made with mostly Ed Brown parts you are getting a pistol with all forged parts and a pistol that is hand fit. Yes the blending is not as good as the Browns, Hawks, or Wilson but, they are also half the price! The finish (SS) is also not as good but, you see what you can do to them!! I love my Valors and would say that they are every bit as nice as the semi custom pistols! I have dealt with CZ for issues with a TS and will say, I really had a great experience with them. Never had a problem with my Valors and dont expect to at this point. For $1500 bucks or so, these pistols are MONSTERS and crush anything that is in its price range.
The SA pistols are great entry level guns!! The RO is a nice little pistol for $700 bucks. The Loaded is pretty nice as well but, both the RO and Loaded are not near the quality of the others. The TRP Half rail is great value and runs nicely! Trophy match is the same. Pretty much a TRP no rail with adjustable sights
The full rail TRP is a different pistol. I actually can not believe it is not stamped with SA Custom on the side. A full rail Operator handmade seems to be fit and have tolerances on par with the best semi-customs I have.. since it's not an "off the shelf" gun and harder to find, I like it that much more
Shoots awesome and no issues ever with that one. I will say, anytime I have had to call SA CS, I have had a great experience. We do some light trouble shooting, and then they send me a shipping label... and they pay the return as well. I like SA a lot and will say, for entry level guns that use MIM and mass produce 1911's, its my company of choice over the other names: Smith, Kimber, Sig, etc...
Kimber... Uh, where should I start with these guys? At one point I was the biggest Kimber fan you could find. I owned well over 27 Kimbers at once! I really liked them from feel, to trigger pull, to looks, etc... I really think Kimber does one hell of a job marketing and presenting a 1911 that is sexy looking. They do a better job than anyone showcasing their guns so that they appeal to the novice 1911 owner. In saying that, "novice" is not a dig at folks... novice is someone I refer to as a person who shoots at the range a few times a month, someone who does not give a crap about blending, crappy mim parts, or quality in overall products. Its also what I would refer to someone who is going to buy a pistol for what it is and never want any kind of custom work done. Its someone who does not care about false marketing and just looks at a price tag, sees 1K and says this is the best 1911 made! Its also someone who thinks that a 1K 1911 is just as good as a 4K 1911... So, if you are in that catagory, you probably LOVE Kimber... Like I did at one time (not a bad thing). Once I bought my first few semi custom 1911's, I started seeing the flaws in Kimber. For 1K+ you should get more than a plastic MSH. For something that reads "Custom Shop", you should actually get something more than a Custom II with additional options! Regardless, this does not bother some people. I certainly didnt bother me all that much! Until... I was the issues I mentioned up top actually affected me in a real situation. here are three examples. On a Grand Raptor I owned (Custom Shop Kimber), while shooting at the range the slide stop broke in two pieces. Literally crumbled like sand. I have had a Para do that as well. Unacceptable for a $1600 gun IMO. I had a Kimber Eclipse that had a sear break at the range. Lastly I had a Kimber Custom II have a thumb safety snap in half 4 times. YES 4, 4 different times. Kimber CS wanted me to send the guns in, and also pay for shipping. No good for me. So, at that point I pretty much wrote off Kimber. As for the Warrior that is picture, I never had an issue with it and it ran fine! The Custom II that you see was a little different. I had the carry cuts done, I had the slide stop, sear and disconnector, and MSH changed (not by Kimber because they do not have a custom shop that can do that kind of work). I had the front sight cut to fit a Brazos Lightening Rode and the Rear cut to wear an Infinity adjustable rear. I stopped there because there was no real reason to keep dropping money into a pistol like this. Shoots great, no issues, really like it! For what I have into that pistol, I could buy a Valor and I would take the Valor all day any day.
Sig Sauer... IMO they should stick to making P series pistols. I have owned 5 Sigs and was not a fan of any of them. I am not even a fan of the one pictured... They have all had major issues with the slide locking open on the last round. They are just not fit as tight as the other guns I have owned. Every single one of them are unacceptably loose (in my opinion). The parts used are a bit different that other 1911's and that has started to bug me lately... fit, finish, blend is pretty bad all the way around. I think they look cool and other than the slide locking issue, have been a decent range toy. Not anything I would carry though as I have had several issues with hollow points in them. They are magazine sensitive and at this point I would not own another.
Thats my thoughts down the line... Hope you find that helpful?!
First, the Bunker gun (First one BBQ Pistol) is by far the single most impressive pistol I have handled to this point in my life. Its that good! Its also my favorite handgun I own. Its dead nuts accurate and just on another level in terms of quality. I was at a smaller range with it the other day, I was shooting in the 4th lane (8 total). 15 yards down, dead center X one hole 5 shot group. The whole damn range stopped and watched me shoot my next 45 rounds. Funny thing is, they all asked to shoot it, they all swore I was only shooting as good as I was because of the gun. Ill gladly admit it had a little to do with it but, most people just cant shoot. The pistol is a show stopper and far and away the best built 1911 I have! Buying a Custom gun is unlike buying anything else... You literally choose every option and feature on the gun. From cuts to sights, to finish, to whatever the heck you can think of. This was the second custom gun I have and its always awesome to work with the top smiths in the world on what you want you pistol to look like and feel like. The other thing that is really awesome about doing this kind of thing is, you literally become friends with these guys! I have now worked with Joe Chambers and Brandan Bunker and can you tell I talk to these guys a lot.... and not just about gun stuff. You get to know their values, families, work, etc... An example is The waiting list for a Joe gun is upwards of 6 years. Thats a long time to wait for a pistol. Over that time (2-3 years not for me), you just touch base to see how everything is. Same with Brandan... 8-12 months, we have gotten to be friends and I call him to talk shop a lot! Both Joe and B are both awesome guys and I think there is something to that. You 100% will not get that ordering a gun from Wilson, Crafter, NH, etc... Those are companies that have a bottom line and customer care reps. The chance of getting Bill Wilson on the line to just chat is slim to none. Anyway, I really enjoy the process of building a gun, getting feedback, learning, etc... of buying a full custom from guys who put out 8-12 guns a year.
Next for the collection will be 1 of 3 pistols... either another full Custom Bunker Arms from Brandan Bunker, A full custom BEC (Buisness End Custom) Lou Biando, or a SV Infinity pistol. Probably leaning toward the Bunker gun just because we have talked about whats next in line for me. I am very interested in getting a single stack from SVI as well. I do have a Black Knight Pinstripper on order from my friend Joe Chambers, but I am still 3 years out on that build. Really cant wait for that one!!
The best bang for the buck is 100% no doubt the Valor. Its very affordable and honestly, pretty close in quality to the guns I have that ran over 3K. I would put it right there with any of em
If I was going to give a thought on companies etc.. I would say this.
Wilson has a lot of hype around it. They make a great pistols but, I can honestly say, I have had to send a few of them back to the factory. Couple that in with what I would consider crappy customer service and my thoughts on WC are slowly changing. Maybe my expectations were to high? Either way, we have had some issues over the last few years. Wilson makes a great pistol but, the quality control has slipped over the last few years. Also, their "lifetime warranty" is not really a life time warranty. Their in house finishers (for AT) are not very good. I have had finish application issues and Wilson just does not care. To me, that crap... esp because I have spent well over 20K on pistols with them. Oh well, not the end of the world and I am a very picky/OCD kind of person. I am probably being to picky, but when you spend over 3K on a pistol I think you have the right to be. I know it sounds like I am bashing Wilson... Overall I am happy with the pistols I have by them, they just leave me shaking my head from time to time.
Nighthawk... I LOVE these pistols!! I will say IMO they make the best semi custom gun out there (Crafter may be tops right now but, I do not own one). I have not had a single issue with any of them. Because of that, I have not had to call them to send a pistol back etc... I have heard they are not the best in terms of CS but, at this point the only CS I find to my liking is SA. The fact that I have not had to call NH makes me think they are just a step up from the rest! The fit, finish, and build quality just seem better than the others. I also like the fact that upgrades are built onto the price of the guns... Wilson you add everything. Dont get me wrong, you can spec the pistol exactly like you want but, they typically have a model that will be set up pretty close to the way you want it. Last HUGE point on the NH pistols... 1 GUNSMITH working on your guns. Thats a "supergrade" from Wilson. That is the single most impressive thing about NH. 100% happy with all my Hawks!
Ed Browns are certainly beautiful pistols and the SS pistol is what got me hooked on high end 1911's. I will say, there is something about that SS pistol that just feels "right" in my hand. The trigger is also the best (other than the Bunker gun). It breaks slightly before the rest so, due to not knowing when its going to fire I shoot it as good as, if not better than any of the others. I had the SS gun back once for some cosmetic work and inspection one time! Turnaround was about 2 weeks and it came back running like a top... As much crap as folks give Brown for the CS, I did not have a problem. Yeah, I paid for shipping to them etc... but, I also paid for shipping every time I sent a Wilson off as well. Nothing buy good stuff from these guys!
Baers are great value guns as well! I like them and I personally like the serrations Baer uses on his pistols. They are tight as hell... to the point most think there is something wrong with them
The Valor is a fantastic value in the 1911 world... made with mostly Ed Brown parts you are getting a pistol with all forged parts and a pistol that is hand fit. Yes the blending is not as good as the Browns, Hawks, or Wilson but, they are also half the price! The finish (SS) is also not as good but, you see what you can do to them!! I love my Valors and would say that they are every bit as nice as the semi custom pistols! I have dealt with CZ for issues with a TS and will say, I really had a great experience with them. Never had a problem with my Valors and dont expect to at this point. For $1500 bucks or so, these pistols are MONSTERS and crush anything that is in its price range.
The SA pistols are great entry level guns!! The RO is a nice little pistol for $700 bucks. The Loaded is pretty nice as well but, both the RO and Loaded are not near the quality of the others. The TRP Half rail is great value and runs nicely! Trophy match is the same. Pretty much a TRP no rail with adjustable sights
Kimber... Uh, where should I start with these guys? At one point I was the biggest Kimber fan you could find. I owned well over 27 Kimbers at once! I really liked them from feel, to trigger pull, to looks, etc... I really think Kimber does one hell of a job marketing and presenting a 1911 that is sexy looking. They do a better job than anyone showcasing their guns so that they appeal to the novice 1911 owner. In saying that, "novice" is not a dig at folks... novice is someone I refer to as a person who shoots at the range a few times a month, someone who does not give a crap about blending, crappy mim parts, or quality in overall products. Its also what I would refer to someone who is going to buy a pistol for what it is and never want any kind of custom work done. Its someone who does not care about false marketing and just looks at a price tag, sees 1K and says this is the best 1911 made! Its also someone who thinks that a 1K 1911 is just as good as a 4K 1911... So, if you are in that catagory, you probably LOVE Kimber... Like I did at one time (not a bad thing). Once I bought my first few semi custom 1911's, I started seeing the flaws in Kimber. For 1K+ you should get more than a plastic MSH. For something that reads "Custom Shop", you should actually get something more than a Custom II with additional options! Regardless, this does not bother some people. I certainly didnt bother me all that much! Until... I was the issues I mentioned up top actually affected me in a real situation. here are three examples. On a Grand Raptor I owned (Custom Shop Kimber), while shooting at the range the slide stop broke in two pieces. Literally crumbled like sand. I have had a Para do that as well. Unacceptable for a $1600 gun IMO. I had a Kimber Eclipse that had a sear break at the range. Lastly I had a Kimber Custom II have a thumb safety snap in half 4 times. YES 4, 4 different times. Kimber CS wanted me to send the guns in, and also pay for shipping. No good for me. So, at that point I pretty much wrote off Kimber. As for the Warrior that is picture, I never had an issue with it and it ran fine! The Custom II that you see was a little different. I had the carry cuts done, I had the slide stop, sear and disconnector, and MSH changed (not by Kimber because they do not have a custom shop that can do that kind of work). I had the front sight cut to fit a Brazos Lightening Rode and the Rear cut to wear an Infinity adjustable rear. I stopped there because there was no real reason to keep dropping money into a pistol like this. Shoots great, no issues, really like it! For what I have into that pistol, I could buy a Valor and I would take the Valor all day any day.
Sig Sauer... IMO they should stick to making P series pistols. I have owned 5 Sigs and was not a fan of any of them. I am not even a fan of the one pictured... They have all had major issues with the slide locking open on the last round. They are just not fit as tight as the other guns I have owned. Every single one of them are unacceptably loose (in my opinion). The parts used are a bit different that other 1911's and that has started to bug me lately... fit, finish, blend is pretty bad all the way around. I think they look cool and other than the slide locking issue, have been a decent range toy. Not anything I would carry though as I have had several issues with hollow points in them. They are magazine sensitive and at this point I would not own another.
Thats my thoughts down the line... Hope you find that helpful?!
Thanks for your thoughts on your collection. I think my next 1911 is going to be a DW Valor. I'd been toying with the idea and I think that's what I'm going to start saving for. I don't want to go any higher on a gun at this point and what you say is what I've heard from many others, that for the money, it's likely the best before hitting a high end custom gun.
100% a rock solid choice for a 1911!
very nice collection cundiff congratsWell, the cqb 45 was ran the way it's supposed to have been (see pic), at this point probably the cqb9! Cheaper ammo, less recoil, smooth as hell, lighter in weight... Great gun
Well, the cqb 45 was ran the way it's supposed to have been (see pic), at this point probably the cqb9! Cheaper ammo, less recoil, smooth as hell, lighter in weight... Great gun
Here you had me looking at Valors a little more seriously... Back over to looking at some more WC I suppose!
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