16 Open Carriers vs Several Police Officers!

[Titanium_Frost]

The reason they singled out Richie is because he was the one dumb enough to talk to them. Then they homed in on him using their sooper police training and ignored the other "dangerously" armed people at the table.

Tactics like this make it apparent that some police just want to harass people and are not in fact trying to protect anyone, certainly they cannot be so delusional as to think they are enforcing the law.

 

[cigarman454]

That was awesome. Thanks for the post.

 

[s&wluvr]

Well, some of you may not agree with my observation here, however they obviously received a call from someone and responded. AND, although they may not have totally understood the law regarding ID, they did appear to act in a very professional manner, although I wouldn't condone their trying to get the S&S manager to ask them to leave. Just MHO.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Tonight, I had S&S's Jalapeño Crunch Chicken Sandwich and their Peanutbutter and Banana Milkshake. I was in gustatory heaven.

 

[Hammerhead]

Tonight, I had S&S's Jalapeño Crunch Chicken Sandwich and their Peanutbutter and Banana Milkshake. I was in gustatory heaven.

Good luck tomorrow.

 

[wally05]

No, you are not required to show your ID if you are seen carrying. In Indiana, you are only required to ID yourself if you are violating an ordinance or committing an infraction. Even then, you are not required to show ID, you can ID yourself by name, address, and birthdate. Carrying a firearm without a license is a misdemeanor (with some circumstances a felony) and is not an ID-able offense.

Should you be stopped by a LEO and asked for your LTCH, which you are not required to carry, you do not have to present ID. If you present your LTCH, once they verify the validity of it, all questioning should cease.

You would only be required to present ID (i.e. driver's license) if you are driving, as there is nothing anywhere that states you have to have it on you otherwise.

If you want to play that game, that's fine. The state statute does state that all you need to give LE are those items, but you can bet for dang sure you're going to stand there until that information is confirmed. I'm not trying to be an ass, but if you can present an ID, just do it if an officer has a legitimate purpose to ask for id info... it makes both lives easier. A person shouldn't have to carry an ID card on them at all times unless driving... that is the point of the legislation, but it makes it easier for you and me if you can produce something with real data on it.

Especially true if you're giving info to confirm a LTCH. I would even go as far as to ask for a pic from dispatch if possible.

As for the JBT comment, I'm usually all for some of the fun stuff on here, but keep in mind that many of these guys/girls enjoy doing the job to help society. A person called it in and no matter the personal opinion of the officer with that situation, they still serve the public and must respond to investigate. They have supervisors and other taxpayers other than you to answer to.

 

[Prometheus]

Man, those kids... otherwise a great video. My sister and I acted like that once out in public. I was 5, my sister was 3. We were promptly escorted to the car by mom, corrected, and remained there until our grandparents finished their dinner.

Yeah really, sheesh, I never let my kids bounce all over like that and get loud. I can't stand parents who don't parent.


Otherwise, excellent outcome. +1 to these guys.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well, some of you may not agree with my observation here, however they obviously received a call from someone and responded. AND, although they may not have totally understood the law regarding ID, they did appear to act in a very professional manner, although I wouldn't condone their trying to get the S&S manager to ask them to leave. Just MHO.

I think you point has been missed by most people in the thread. While I agree with everybody, that these guys should actually KNOW gun-related law, what happens when police don't know the law? How do you expect them to handle the situation? The officers "requested" compliance from the the OC'ers, and were denied. No one was cuffed, no one was forced to leave, no one was told that what they "could," or "could not" do. There is no evidence of the officers roughing up, or even speaking in an un-civil tone to any of the OC'ers.
But I get it. I really do, the officers shouldn't have been going through such lengths over something that is a 100% legal action. However, all things considered, there have been way worse police interactions posted.

If I was a "regular" citizen, I'd write to the PD, and thank them for the professionalism of their officers, but admonish them for their lack of knowledge concerning gun rights.

 

[MikeDVB]

just do it if an officer has a legitimate purpose to ask for id info...

Isn't the whole law as far as whether you have to ID or not what determines whether it's legitimate or not. Without the officer having reasonable articulable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot - you're not required to ID so there is no legitimate purpose to ask for ID.

it makes both lives easier

Us silly Americans always trying to find the easy way. Sometimes the easy way is not the best way. It would be much easier to just go ahead and forfeit our 2nd Amendment Rights, but I'm pretty sure we're not forfeiting any rights regardless of how much easier it would be.

A person shouldn't have to carry an ID card on them at all times unless driving...

You're not required to carry ID, unless I'm mistaken. You may be required to IDentify yourself, but I know of now law, short of driving which you pointed out, that requires you to keep ID on your person.

Especially true if you're giving info to confirm a LTCH. I would even go as far as to ask for a pic from dispatch if possible.

You can do whatever you want to verify my pink slip but unless you have RS that I just committed or am committing a crime - I'm not going to take the time to ID myself, just as I wouldn't if I wanted to walk up to you and have a casual conversation.

As for the JBT comment, I'm usually all for some of the fun stuff on here, but keep in mind that many of these guys/girls enjoy doing the job to help society.

Keep in mind that many here are law enforcement and don't take the "JBT" comment/parody/joke personally. We are all, after all, grown up adults - right?

A person called it in and no matter the personal opinion of the officer with that situation, they still serve the public and must respond to investigate. They have supervisors and other taxpayers other than you to answer to.

They didn't arrest anybody for violating any laws as no laws were being violated. Their job is to Enforce the Laws (you know, being Law Enforcement Officers) and not to baby-sit or hassle people who are not doing anything illegal.

 

[Hammerhead]

If you want to play that game, that's fine. Forgive me if I don't believe that doing everything I can to retain my rights isn't a game. The state statute does state that all you need to give LE are those items, but you can bet for dang sure you're going to stand there until that information is confirmed. I refer you to the portion of my statement where I confirm that you should present your LTCH and it is verified valid. After such verification, all questioning is to cease. If you're stopping me for an infraction or ordinance violation, I am only required to ID myself verbally. Otherwise, I'm not required to ID myself at all. I'm not trying to be an ass, but if you can present an ID, just do it if an officer has a legitimate purpose to ask for id info... it makes both lives easier. Please point me to the legitimate purpose a LEO has for verifying my ID if I am seen OCing my sidearm outside of my vehicle? Please show me the statute. I'll wait. Until then, I'll keep my 4A rights intact and not hand over my "papers, please." A person [STRIKE]shouldn't[/STRIKE] doesn't have to carry an ID card on them at all times unless driving... that is the point of the legislation, but it makes it easier for you and me if you can produce something with real data on it. Why am I required or expected to make your job easier? If you're a LEO, I'm doing just that now, by hopefully reminding you that I am aware of my rights, your limits, and what is and is not proper for both citizens and LEOs.

Especially true if you're giving info to confirm a LTCH. I would even go as far as to ask for a pic from dispatch if possible. Bzzzt. Wrong. I do not have to give info to confirm a LTCH. My LTCH is enough to confirm my LTCH. I will present it, and only it, if you are concerned for my legally carried sidearm. You may verify my valid license, then we will part ways. Should you decide to further the encounter in any way, my lawyer will be getting involved.

My responses in red. Yes, I'm stating the obvious.

 

[AtTheMurph]

Guess I'm showing my age. Back in my day...
Ever notice in these videos that calm, reasoned responses usually work out well for the 2A folks? If nothing else, it shows we can be a good civil community, regardless of what the grabbers insist.

Those cops weren't being civil. They were spoiling for a fight and a confrontation. That would have happened if the manager had not refused to throw them out.

 

[Roadie]

I certainly think the LEOs over-reacted. Back up and a paddy wagon for a bunch of families eating dinner peacefully with their children?

 

[KG1]

I think you point has been missed by most people in the thread. While I agree with everybody, that these guys should actually KNOW gun-related law, what happens when police don't know the law? How do you expect them to handle the situation? The officers "requested" compliance from the the OC'ers, and were denied. No one was cuffed, no one was forced to leave, no one was told that what they "could," or "could not" do. There is no evidence of the officers roughing up, or even speaking in an un-civil tone to any of the OC'ers.
But I get it. I really do, the officers shouldn't have been going through such lengths over something that is a 100% legal action. However, all things considered, there have been way worse police interactions posted.

If I was a "regular" citizen, I'd write to the PD, and thank them for the professionalism of their officers, but admonish them for their lack of knowledge concerning gun rights.

I suppose you're ok with the officers attempt to convince the manager to ask legally carrying, law abiding paying customers to leave then.

Should the "regular" citizen also write to the PD and "thank them" for that kind of "professionalism" as well?

 

[sidewinder27]

Had the manager asked them to leave there probably would have been an argument. At that point the police would have said hey you were asked to leave and you have refused even though your coat is on and your walking out the door. So now your going to jail for trespassing.

 

[TheReaper]

Parents who won't discipline their children and people with gauges in their ears, just who I want defending my 2nd amendment rights.

 

[Osobuco]

Parents who won't discipline their children and people with gauges in their ears, just who I want defending my 2nd amendment rights.

WOW - i have a couple friends with gauges - i do not care for gauges personally but I can tell you my friends are the most decent people you will ever meet. So much for not judging a book by the cover

As far as disciplining kids - The kids were being kids - what would you have them do - tie them to the chairs??? I think they were reasonably well behaved given the cops were there questioning their parents. One was a little loud but there was no crying, no fits, just some excitement over what was going on. Jeeze - what the hell is wrong with people - you expect 4 year olds to bahave like tweens and tweens to behave like adults. Sure the parents could have told the kids to pipe down a bit but I think they were also distracted by the cops asking them for their papers like it is the soviet union or something or Nazi germany "Where are your papers?"

too bad we are not all as perfect as you

 

[Thegeek]

The only thing that could have been better is if the manager asked the police to leave.

 

[TheReaper]

WOW - i have a couple friends with gauges - i do not care for gauges personally but I can tell you my friends are the most decent people you will ever meet. So much for not judging a book by the cover

As far as disciplining kids - The kids were being kids - what would you have them do - tie them to the chairs??? I think they were reasonably well behaved given the cops were there questioning their parents. One was a little loud but there was no crying, no fits, just some excitement over what was going on. Jeeze - what the hell is wrong with people - you expect 4 year olds to bahave like tweens and tweens to behave like adults. Sure the parents could have told the kids to pipe down a bit but I think they were also distracted by the cops asking them for their papers like it is the soviet union or something or Nazi germany "Where are your papers?"

too bad we are not all as perfect as you

The kids disrupting the entire establishment had nothing to do with the police, nice try. The kids weren't being disciplined by their parents and age has nothing to do with it. My kids never acted that way in public, nor would I have allowed it.

 

[NDguido]

Some fool in the comments section said they were foolish to open carry because all warfare is based on deception.

I'm not the most intelligent man on the planet, but I feel like a friggin genius when people post such uneducated idiocy.

 

[Rookie]

The kids disrupting the entire establishment had nothing to do with the police, nice try. The kids weren't being disciplined by their parents and age has nothing to do with it. My kids never acted that way in public, nor would I have allowed it.

I agree with you. My four kids were never acted that way in public.