1500 shenanigans.

[DFM914]

Just a thought for people that don't have any clue but just want to carry a firearm, because they can. I'm a veteran and prior LE and responsible gun lover, but so many individual just want to go out and "get a gun" shhot maybe one box of ammo and think they are Mr. Tactical Know It ALL. At least aking a course open their eyes just a little.
How often have you been to a range and witnessed someone at the line, stop and see this...

View attachment 25219

Mandatory training will not stop stupidity!

 

[Harleyrider_50]

I just hope that at the NRA convention some dickweed doesn't have a discharge! This is why EVERYONE should be required to take a firearms safety course to even purchase a firearm.

......Been 'skool'd' since was ol' nuff ta hold 1 up......an' look down the sights............why'na hell should pay some 'Dickweed' (yer words....) $$ ......ta show me whut I already know......jus' fer the piece o' paper......?........?.......

 

[churchmouse]

To each their own, but I personally didn't see a need for purple in my fellow Devil Dog's post. Just out of curiosity, I jumped on the NRA website to look at prices for the NRA's Basic Pistol course. The last time I looked (several years ago) it was around $50. Now the lowest I found was $110, and Guy Relford is charging $175 for an 8-hour "this is the end the ouchy things we call bullets come from" *BASIC* pistol class., with the median price being somewhere around $125-150 among the instructors I looked at in the central Indiana area.

Having been a full-time teacher myself, I absolutely have no problem with professional instructors getting paid to teach, but to me...

The NRA's most basic class should not be so expensive that it close to the cost for a used gun, and should not be a barrier to new gun owners receiving a basic education about their new purchase.

I understand your point. What would you consider a fair price for such training??
How much is your time worth??
Do these fee's include rental of a facility with the required insurances etc??
Does the instructor travel a great distance on his own nickel to give these "Free or low rate" classes??
Not trying to knock you at all. I have spent most of my life in a service related industry and realize the costs and overhead involved.
Just asking some questions related to the posts for free or lower rates on training.

I am semi-retired but still do some work for select people and some folks on ingo. I know what my time is worth and charge accordingly. Years and years of experience are not free.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Everything's "high" anymore. We're used to $3-something-a-gallon gas now, we're used to $.40-.50/round ammo, we're used to $20-something/brick .22LR's, $100/month cable bills, etc...etc... $125-150 for 6-8 hours of training is higher than it used to be but so is everything else.

 

[churchmouse]

Everything's "high" anymore. We're used to $3-something-a-gallon gas now, we're used to $.40-.50/round ammo, we're used to $20-something/brick .22LR's, $100/month cable bills, etc...etc... $125-150 for 6-8 hours of training is higher than it used to be but so is everything else.

^^^^^these issues^^^^^^
Are why everything service related is so expensive these days. I have to pay cable/cell/utility/insurance bills every month just like an instructor would.

 

[ViperJock]

I understand your point. What would you consider a fair price for such training??
How much is your time worth??
Do these fee's include rental of a facility with the required insurances etc??
Does the instructor travel a great distance on his own nickel to give these "Free or low rate" classes??
Not trying to knock you at all. I have spent most of my life in a service related industry and realize the costs and overhead involved.
Just asking some questions related to the posts for free or lower rates on training.

I am semi-retired but still do some work for select people and some folks on ingo. I know what my time is worth and charge accordingly. Years and years of experience are not free.

As you boys know, I'm a pretty hard core value for value guy. As someone who gives the NRA money on a regular basis, I would not mind them using my donations to subsidize cheaper (not free as people would not take it seriously) basic safety classes for beginners. Make the class an "affordable"price. Not sure what that would be. $50?

Back to the OP, that Cletus needed a serious dressing down. Not sure pointing a gun was necessary and certainly not smart from a job retention/promotion standpoint.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Or we could help make gun classes affordable by making them tax deductible.

 

[ViperJock]

Or we could help make gun classes affordable by making them tax deductible.

Even better.

 

[churchmouse]

As you boys know, I'm a pretty hard core value for value guy. As someone who gives the NRA money on a regular basis, I would not mind them using my donations to subsidize cheaper (not free as people would not take it seriously) basic safety classes for beginners. Make the class an "affordable"price. Not sure what that would be. $50?

Back to the OP, that Cletus needed a serious dressing down. Not sure pointing a gun was necessary and certainly not smart from a job retention/promotion standpoint.

I see your point. I am just looking at this from the instructors position.

 

[printcraft]

Originally Posted by Okimeister
This is why EVERYONE should be required to take a firearms safety course to even purchase a firearm.

I would not support that, I would support requiring a training course of ATLEAST 16 hours for carry permits. Darwinism has to have some kind of tool to make an example of itself. JMHO

TRUE! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

****, I COULD HAVE SWORN IT WAS IN THERE.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

I understand your point. What would you consider a fair price for such training??
How much is your time worth??
Do these fee's include rental of a facility with the required insurances etc??
Does the instructor travel a great distance on his own nickel to give these "Free or low rate" classes??
Not trying to knock you at all. I have spent most of my life in a service related industry and realize the costs and overhead involved.
Just asking some questions related to the posts for free or lower rates on training.

I am semi-retired but still do some work for select people and some folks on ingo. I know what my time is worth and charge accordingly. Years and years of experience are not free.

These are all good questions, Church, so I don't feel 'knocked' at all!

Since this thread is about the Indy 1500, I have started a new thread about pricing of the NRA Basic Courses in the Tactics & Training section. I look forward to an interesting discussion there!


....And now back to your regularly scheduled "

-es* with guns" thread...!

*(who have not done such

things with guns if they could afford a basic NRA class... )

 

[stormryder]

On a slightly different note, anyone notice the Amish Family making rounds Saturday?
I had to look twice to make sure I saw what I saw.
I thought these people were pacifists and did not believe in firearms.

 

[Rookie]

They still hunt.

 

[Cameramonkey]

On a slightly different note, anyone notice the Amish Family making rounds Saturday?
I had to look twice to make sure I saw what I saw.
I thought these people were pacifists and did not believe in firearms.

Methodists don't believe in consuming alcohol, but you still see them in bars.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I thought these people were pacifists and did not believe in firearms.

Mennonites or Amish?

 

[Rocko]

Always hear about stupid people at the gun show. I always want to go but always end up having something else that weekend.

 

[SubUrbanCamo317]

TRUE! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!



****, I COULD HAVE SWORN IT WAS IN THERE.

They already require a training course for hunting on public and state owned property. What honestly makes you think they wouldnt start requiring a class for your carry permit. The constitution doesnt say anything about needing a permit to CARRY a firearm. It states that we are allowed to own weapons with no questions asked. I'm sure there are states the require it. You can argue the constitution to me, i do understand what your trying to tell me, but in my opinion I think it might be constructive for people that go out and buy a gun that have no clue about gun safety. I would feel more comfortable seeing another gun owner in public.

 

[BC910]

Seems this thread has gone off track a bit, let me see if I can set it right again.
First, I must admit 2 things. One is that this whole story all happened, admittedly because of MY stupidity. I made a choice, a calculated choice but it was mine to make and I did and, I know now I probably shoulda chose different haha.
Second is that after my "incident" I was furious at the LEO, but after reading all the posts here describing what these guys had to put up with for three days, I can better understand why the LEO flipped out on me for eventually nothing. But that DOES NOT EXCUSE HIS ACTIONS, in fact it shows that safety courses don't always work (because you know he has attended multiple safety courses).
So, here's the story:
My dad and I went to the 1500 for the first time ever Sunday. On our way to the entrance I didn't see any of the signs telling me to unload until the very last one, right by the door (which I wouldn't have seen if my dad hadn't pointed it out). Why did I not see them? Simple, I was excited to go to my first gun show and was involved in a good discussion with my dad. You couple that with a crowd and people standing everywhere (at least partially blocking the signs) and I just plain missed them.
When it was brought to my attention, I had a choice to make... I had brought my pocket 380 (s&w BG) and it was holstered in my pocket. Total deep concealment. The gun was loaded (7rnds) with one chambered. Being a person who would usually rather ignore "no gun" signs or not enter the "no gun" establishments in the first place I decided to just enter. It's a GUN SHOW AFTER ALL RIGHT? - My fault, I'll own up to that
So, we go inside, get our tickets and the proceed to the door. We head through the door and hand our tickets to the girl there on the left, then I see them... 3 uniformed LEOs at the table. CRAP! Now, I am a person who tends to respect and listen to police, so I figured I now have 2 choices. "No, I don't have a gun officer" Or "excuse me, I'll be right back while I go empty my gun". I chose the latter. I told my dad I'd be right back, turned around and asked the "door girl" if I could step outside for just a moment, she said "no".
Well, I turn back around and this is how it went down.
LEO - "any guns on you today"
ME - "as a matter of fact Ii do." (I then pulled it out of my pocket STILL HOLSTERED and laid it on the table with the muzzle pointed left AT NO ONE). "Problem is, I did'nt notice the sign until last minute and thought it wasn't a big deal, I apologize. Here, let me clear it for you." (I then proceeded to pull the pistol from the holster still pointed left (my left) and drop the magazine.)
LEO - "YOU'VE GOT TO BE F***ING KIDDING ME! WHAT THE F*** DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING" (as he literally reached across the table and YANKED my gun from my hands!)
-Remember, the magazine had dropped but there was still one in the pipe-
ME - "I am very sorry, I asked if I could leave and she said no"
LEO to the ticket girl - "did he ask to leave to empty his gun and you said no?"
TG - "Well he didn't tell me he needed to unload his gun"
ME - "I'm sorry, I didn't know there was a secret password but I did ask"
LEO - (after clearing and zip tying the gun) "you can come back for your ammo"
ME - "oooookkkkkk, thanks"
Now, like I said I screwed up, I guess I should have cleared the gun before entering. Go ahead, call me a dumb ass or whatever but let's get one thing straight here. I WASN'T THE ONE WHO YANKED A LOADED GUN OUT OF SOMEONES HAND! If I hadn't been trained in some manner, if I hadn't been on my game and maybe had not gotten a full nights sleep, my (or anyone else's) natural reaction is to squeeze and hold on. I ask you, what would have (or at least could have) happened if I had squeezed that gun? No, my finger was NOT on the trigger, it NEVER is, but in that scenario, there is a pretty darn good chance it would have found its way in... Same reason you don't attempt to catch a falling gun.
This guy was DANGEROUS!
I had told a buddy of mine this story when we met inside and he said "the guy all the way to the left?" I said "yeah" he said "same thing happened to me!"
Apparently his was unloaded (he read the signs ) but when the officer asked if it was unloaded he said yes then pulled it out of the holster (OWB) to hand it to the officer. He said he had just cleared the holster, with the gun still pointed down when the guy reached over the table, grabbed it from his hands and said something like "what the f*** do you think you are doing pointing that thing at me?" My buddy said he was completely dumb founded...
I can assure you that nothing I did was unsafe, threatening or apparently all that unusual considering the amount of ammunition on that table when I came back for mine. And I am pretty positive the same goes for my friend the former Marine...
After that experience, the lack of any real "deals", the idiocy of disarming the public as they enter a GUN SHOW (where they can just buy other guns and ammo right there for God's sake) and my general distaste for any place or person who wishes to disarm me I have decided I most likely will NOT be attending again.

 

[jagee]

Seems this thread has gone off track a bit, let me see if I can set it right again.
First, I must admit 2 things. One is that this whole story all happened, admittedly because of MY stupidity. I made a choice, a calculated choice but it was mine to make and I did and, I know now I probably shoulda chose different haha.
Second is that after my "incident" I was furious at the LEO, but after reading all the posts here describing what these guys had to put up with for three days, I can better understand why the LEO flipped out on me for eventually nothing. But that DOES NOT EXCUSE HIS ACTIONS, in fact it shows that safety courses don't always work (because you know he has attended multiple safety courses).
So, here's the story:
My dad and I went to the 1500 for the first time ever Sunday. On our way to the entrance I didn't see any of the signs telling me to unload until the very last one, right by the door (which I wouldn't have seen if my dad hadn't pointed it out). Why did I not see them? Simple, I was excited to go to my first gun show and was involved in a good discussion with my dad. You couple that with a crowd and people standing everywhere (at least partially blocking the signs) and I just plain missed them.
When it was brought to my attention, I had a choice to make... I had brought my pocket 380 (s&w BG) and it was holstered in my pocket. Total deep concealment. The gun was loaded (7rnds) with one chambered. Being a person who would usually rather ignore "no gun" signs or not enter the "no gun" establishments in the first place I decided to just enter. It's a GUN SHOW AFTER ALL RIGHT? - My fault, I'll own up to that
So, we go inside, get our tickets and the proceed to the door. We head through the door and hand our tickets to the girl there on the left, then I see them... 3 uniformed LEOs at the table. CRAP! Now, I am a person who tends to respect and listen to police, so I figured I now have 2 choices. "No, I don't have a gun officer" Or "excuse me, I'll be right back while I go empty my gun". I chose the latter. I told my dad I'd be right back, turned around and asked the "door girl" if I could step outside for just a moment, she said "no".
Well, I turn back around and this is how it went down.
LEO - "any guns on you today"
ME - "as a matter of fact Ii do." (I then pulled it out of my pocket STILL HOLSTERED and laid it on the table with the muzzle pointed left AT NO ONE). "Problem is, I did'nt notice the sign until last minute and thought it wasn't a big deal, I apologize. Here, let me clear it for you." (I then proceeded to pull the pistol from the holster still pointed left (my left) and drop the magazine.)
LEO - "YOU'VE GOT TO BE F***ING KIDDING ME! WHAT THE F*** DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING" (as he literally reached across the table and YANKED my gun from my hands!)
-Remember, the magazine had dropped but there was still one in the pipe-
ME - "I am very sorry, I asked if I could leave and she said no"
LEO to the ticket girl - "did he ask to leave to empty his gun and you said no?"
TG - "Well he didn't tell me he needed to unload his gun"
ME - "I'm sorry, I didn't know there was a secret password but I did ask"
LEO - (after clearing and zip tying the gun) "you can come back for your ammo"
ME - "oooookkkkkk, thanks"
Now, like I said I screwed up, I guess I should have cleared the gun before entering. Go ahead, call me a dumb ass or whatever but let's get one thing straight here. I WASN'T THE ONE WHO YANKED A LOADED GUN OUT OF SOMEONES HAND! If I hadn't been trained in some manner, if I hadn't been on my game and maybe had not gotten a full nights sleep, my (or anyone else's) natural reaction is to squeeze and hold on. I ask you, what would have (or at least could have) happened if I had squeezed that gun? No, my finger was NOT on the trigger, it NEVER is, but in that scenario, there is a pretty darn good chance it would have found its way in... Same reason you don't attempt to catch a falling gun.
This guy was DANGEROUS!
I had told a buddy of mine this story when we met inside and he said "the guy all the way to the left?" I said "yeah" he said "same thing happened to me!"
Apparently his was unloaded (he read the signs ) but when the officer asked if it was unloaded he said yes then pulled it out of the holster (OWB) to hand it to the officer. He said he had just cleared the holster, with the gun still pointed down when the guy reached over the table, grabbed it from his hands and said something like "what the f*** do you think you are doing pointing that thing at me?" My buddy said he was completely dumb founded...
I can assure you that nothing I did was unsafe, threatening or apparently all that unusual considering the amount of ammunition on that table when I came back for mine. And I am pretty positive the same goes for my friend the former Marine...
After that experience, the lack of any real "deals", the idiocy of disarming the public as they enter a GUN SHOW (where they can just buy other guns and ammo right there for God's sake) and my general distaste for any place or person who wishes to disarm me I have decided I most likely will NOT be attending again.

 

[Hop]

Well that took some guts to post.