+1 muncie PD

[IndyGunner]

^ sure, I guess they have the number now... but unfortunately, I JUST lost it in an unfortunately convenient boating accident.

 

[Hammerhead]

No, I don't get mad if a LEO asks to take my gun to run the numbers. The reason is reasonable, and they can ask anything they like. I get mad when the LEO ignores the fact that my valid LTCH ceases any further questioning, including disarming me and running the numbers. Sorry that my rights trump the unnecessary (and potentially illegal) search of my legal firearm.

And now you have a "gun crime" firearm. Once the serial is put into the system, it never gets erased and the liberals love to use those numbers.

Wait, what? Are you agreeing that it's a bad thing that the LEOs would run the numbers? Yes, it's a bad thing when LEOs overstep their bounds and can't follow the law or case law.

But you're saying that just because the numbers are run, your firearm is suddenly classified as being involved in a crime? Doubtful, unless your firearm has actually been involved in a gun crime per the check. There's no registration in IN, so they'd have to have the numbers from some previous issue to match it to. Unless you've done something with it that would make that happen, any check on the SN would come back blank. Sure, it's possible that the system will now save the SN as having been a search parameter, but that still doesn't make it a "gun crime" gun without a gun crime.

That's like saying that just because you're DL # is run to ID you, you're automatically classified as a criminal in the system.

But yeah, I had a tragic spelunking accident with all my firearms but my EDC. They're all at the bottom of a deep dark hole in the earth.

 

[380Mike]

So what I'm hearing here is:
If you have a LTCH, this is a free ticket not to have your gun checked in a traffic stop? I mean afterall, the LTCH is a piece of paper that can not be forged right?
As for the LEO taking your gun for his safty, I do not have a problem with this. They face this problem everytime they pull someone over.
As for you giving up your gun: Telling him about your gun and letting him have it probably kept your GF out of a ticket (and me on one occasion). I fully agree with your decision here and would give mine gun up evertime. A few minutes without my gun beats paying a ticket in my book.

 

[SSGSAD]

I dont know what everyone is getting so angry about. I gave up my right and let him disarm me. If I wasnt with my girlfriend (who was the only one that could have been in trouble here) I would have told him to get a warrant. I traded being disarmed for 5 minutes to save her several tickets/fines/etc and myself countless minutes/hours of waiting on them to get or not get said warrant. Im sure they wouldnt, but I doubt he would have let HER go.

Also, as I said before, he was very nice/polite. I honestly dont believe he disarmed me because he felt like he was in danger. Im not sure what his motive was, and it doesnt matter. I made a judgement call based on the situation and everything worked out well for everyone involved. The end.

I tried to REP you, but I am OUT, must wait till tomorrow ..... I RESPECT YOUR decision, no sense in going to jail, for NOTHING !!!!! JMHO ...

 

[Compatriot G]

Ed, I'm not going to bust your chops over how you handled the situation. You did what you thought was the best course of action, at that time. However, I'm wondering exactly what your girlfriend could have been ticketed for? You say her plates showed an expired sticker, but when her plate was ran, it showed valid. So her plates were valid. I'm thinking, at the most, she might have been ticketed for improper display or something along those lines. And that might be easily dismissed in court. And so what if the cop thought she was the one drinking? A quick check on the PBT would show otherwise. The same thing goes for you. One beer does not make you intoxicated.

 

[IndyGunner]

She could have been ticketed to no license, no registration, no updated sticker, and a ravishingly good looking boyfriend.

She would have had 24 hours to show proper documentation, but which would you rather choose... being disarmed for a few minutes or spending hours downtown in the police station/courthouse etc.

 

[Hammerhead]

So what I'm hearing here is:
If you have a LTCH, this is a free ticket not to have your gun checked in a traffic stop? I mean afterall, the LTCH is a piece of paper that can not be forged right?
As for the LEO taking your gun for his safty, I do not have a problem with this. They face this problem everytime they pull someone over.
As for you giving up your gun: Telling him about your gun and letting him have it probably kept your GF out of a ticket (and me on one occasion). I fully agree with your decision here and would give mine gun up evertime. A few minutes without my gun beats paying a ticket in my book.

You are more than welcome to give up your rights. No one has said that you have to choose to act in any manner described by any poster here. If you would rather have your gun seized from you because you feel that it's only an inconvenience, that is your prerogative.

To answer your question, yes. The IN Supreme Court, in the case of State v. Richardson, plainly stated that the presentation of a valid IN LTCH is enough to cease any further inquiry into firearms you possess. What this means to the citizens of IN who are legally armed is that once a LEO validates your LTCH as current and legal, they cannot ask to see, touch, taste or smell your firearm. By questioning about a "forged" LTCH as you have, again the LTCH must be validated as legal. They can ask you to present your LTCH for validation. If it were forged, that's where you'd be up a creek. The key to all this is a valid LTCH.

LEO safety is no more paramount than my safety, or that of my family or passengers. My firearm is safest in it's holster where it's not going to be, to quote Mr. Freeman, "coonfingered" thereby putting anyone in jeopardy of acquiring extraneous orifices.

In this particular story, Mr. Bean has indicated that he was inclined to acquiesce to the LEOs request, and that he felt the situation turned out positively. This, as I and others have stated, is a good thing. In this instance, the officer did not cause any more problems than described. However, this is a good example amongst many, many bad examples of LEO/citizen encounters where things go horribly, horribly wrong (see: Canton, OH Officer Harless).

I and many others prefer to avoid introducing our armed status into a situation where a simple traffic violation is suspected to have occurred. The fact that I am armed holds no bearing on the nature of the stop or discussion between a LEO and myself, and as such is none of their business. Why introduce something that could dial the pucker factor up exponentially for both of us and could lead to very bad things happening when it's easier, and legal, to just leave well enough alone?

Should I find reason to inform, i.e. being asked to exit my vehicle, then for the sake of honesty and to remove any surprise reaction, I would inform. That's a judgement call you must make for yourself.

There are also stories aplenty where the disarmament, however brief, does not lead to a ticketless encounter. I don't wish to rely on my Larry and my sidearm as a ticket repellant.

 

[Compatriot G]

She could have been ticketed to no license, no registration, no updated sticker, and a ravishingly good looking boyfriend.

She would have had 24 hours to show proper documentation, but which would you rather choose... being disarmed for a few minutes or spending hours downtown in the police station/courthouse etc.

Like I said, I'm not busting your chops over taking the route you did. I understand not upsetting the girlfriend. I suppose you can look at all this as more of an after-action report. Something to learn from. I might make the suggestion that your girlfriend always keep the proper documents in the car and on her person. This is one of those things my grandfather always stressed to me. Make sure you have all of the stuff in the car that is required to operate it legally. It creates a lot less headaches.

 

[mrortega]

Sounds like your GF is pretty high maintenance. I don't remember seeing a picture of her. Guess I'll have to go back and read all the posts. I'm sure it's there somewhere.

 

[dlbrown75]

Was the officer Jack Osborne? He still comes to Muncie and works for the police.