“Welfare Check” Leaves Woman Dead

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Police “Welfare Check” Leaves Woman Dead LewRockwell.com Blog
March 31, 2010

Police “Welfare Check” Leaves Woman Dead

Posted by William Grigg on March 31, 2010 07:18 PM

Police in Franklin Township, New Jersey recently announced an innovative program “designed to improve the safety of senior citizens,” reported WCBS-TV.
Through “Operation Blue Angel,” elderly residents would leave a key to their front doors in a lockbox accessible by a combination known to police. Police doing “safety checks” of the homes would knock on the door and, if nobody responds, would use the keys to enter.
What could possibly go wrong? What does anybody have to fear from angelic armed strangers sent to check on their “welfare”?
One possible problem is demonstrated by the shooting death of a 47-year-old Prairie Village, Kansas woman this morning (March 31).
Police were sent to her apartment to conduct a “welfare check.” For some reason, the woman didn’t want to be “helped” by the friendly state functionaries with guns.

 

[JetGirl]

Wow. That is some kind of messed up, right there.
I didn't see where she was one of the people who left her key access to the police,...but still. If she said, "go away", they were trespassing.

 

[BloodEclipse]

"We were trying to help her out"

Wow try not helping anyone else.

 

[pig957]

Well, I guess they can cross her off of the list. She has no worries now.

 

[jedi]

Very sad but the Sheep will never learn...

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

[INGunGuy]

So I guess I am wondering, ok, the police come to your home for nothing more than a welfare check, you tell them to go away you are fine, and it escalates into the person who is being checked on, being murdered? Where am I missing something? What country am I in? What year is it? I mean what the hell is going on?

How about this:

TO ALL GOVERNMENT AGENTS STAY OFF MY PROPERTY UNLESS BRINGING A WARRANT!!

Does that work, can I put that sign up outside, or will I be a "enemy combatant" to our tyrannical government?

INGunGuy

 

[Mokkie]

I just dont know what to think. It seems like this is wrong in so many ways. But I dont live in a city. I guess the whole story has not been told. Hopefully more information will come out about this story.

 

[XMil]

Guys, you're jumping the gun here criticizing these doe eyed, humble keepers of the peace. She might have been one of those subversive tea-baggers, or worse, she could have been in possession of the evil mare e wanna!

 

[E5RANGER375]

So I guess I am wondering, ok, the police come to your home for nothing more than a welfare check, you tell them to go away you are fine, and it escalates into the person who is being checked on, being murdered? Where am I missing something? What country am I in? What year is it? I mean what the hell is going on?

How about this:

TO ALL GOVERNMENT AGENTS STAY OFF MY PROPERTY UNLESS BRINGING A WARRANT!!

Does that work, can I put that sign up outside, or will I be a "enemy combatant" to our tyrannical government?

INGunGuy

yep sadly if you posted a sign, theyd desend on you like the black plague. you are very right. then even if they bust in your home without a warrent and without announcing themselves and you shoot them, you will still be un justly prosecuted as the bad guy

this is so BS that this kinda crap happens ALL THE TIME in America. how much of it gets covered up that we dont hear about???
like police can keep a secret anyways. afew of them would tell friends tha combination (cause thed be bragging how simple it was) then another few would tell their wives, and well: tell a wife, telephone, tella fax, tella friend. then afew more are probly already criminals themselves so they would just let their criminal buddies know the combination, and then you have a whole city with UNLOCKED DOORS!! and the poor old people will be suckered into it. if the city wants to spend money on key boxes with combinations then pay to get all them people those panic buttons that goes around their necks, and hook it into 911. "ive fallen and i cant get up"

NEVER FULLY TRUST THE COPS or GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT YOU!!! why put your life in others hands when you dont have to. stop giving your freedoms away you MORONIC DUMB A** PEOPLE!!!!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What's the matter with Kansas?

O.K., so, wait, the cops show up and she points a gun at them?

If you don't want to get shot, shouldn't you not threaten people with guns?

 

[E5RANGER375]

i wonder if it made them feel like men to shoot grandma??

 

[Mokkie]

So I guess I am wondering, ok, the police come to your home for nothing more than a welfare check, you tell them to go away you are fine, and it escalates into the person who is being checked on, being murdered? Where am I missing something? What country am I in? What year is it? I mean what the hell is going on?

How about this:

TO ALL GOVERNMENT AGENTS STAY OFF MY PROPERTY UNLESS BRINGING A WARRANT!!

Does that work, can I put that sign up outside, or will I be a "enemy combatant" to our tyrannical government?

INGunGuy

This type of sign and no trespassing signs do not apply to LE. I think they can come anytime they see fit.

 

[kingnereli]

What's the matter with Kansas?

O.K., so, wait, the cops show up and she points a gun at them?

If you don't want to get shot, shouldn't you not threaten people with guns?

Point a gun? Just like most of us would do when armed, unwelcome guests break into our home. Looks like she should have done less threatening and more shooting.

 

[HICKMAN]

man, that tv report kind of just glossed over the real situation, eh?

Typical...

 

[Bill of Rights]

So I guess I am wondering, ok, the police come to your home for nothing more than a welfare check, you tell them to go away you are fine, and it escalates into the person who is being checked on, being murdered? Where am I missing something? What country am I in? What year is it? I mean what the hell is going on?

How about this:

TO ALL GOVERNMENT AGENTS STAY OFF MY PROPERTY UNLESS BRINGING A WARRANT!!

Does that work, can I put that sign up outside, or will I be a "enemy combatant" to our tyrannical government?

INGunGuy

I don't know how they decide on whom to check, but I know that I've been called to many "check well-being" calls over my career. In most cases, the person isn't answering his/her phone or hasn't shown up somewhere s/he was expected to be and it's a family member who's worried. Sometimes we arrive and after knocking on multiple doors, looking through all accessible windows, and making every effort, we find no one and no sign of a person in distress. Sometimes the person is the classic "I've fallen and I can't get up!" and can't reach the phone to call for help. On some occasions, the person is dead and has been for days.

Having a key available to enter would sure make it easier for us to get in and cheaper for the resident/homeowner who would not have to replace a door or window. If I see you down, I don't need a warrant for forcible entry, or at least I never have so far. (I could be wrong and would welcome correction if so, but I think that would be covered under the Good Samaritan law (Indiana Code 16-31-6).)

The thought that crosses my mind is if we arrive at someone's home who has mental problems/is not competent to make a rational decision, and is a danger to him/herself or others, we cannot in good conscience or under the law leave that person there, unattended. Such a person would probably be worked with to gain their agreement to voluntary transport, but if s/he was still refusing and/or violent, likely s/he would be taken by force (by police) and transported by us to a hospital for care. (No, we cannot just make that claim. There are objective criteria that must be met. Like LEOs, we must be able to articulate why this person is thought to be a danger. There is a little bit of subjectivity (i.e. experience, personal knowledge) which in most cases where it comes into play, does so in the patient's favor, at least if I'm the medic.)

Again, I don't know NJ's criteria for a well-being check/safety check/whatever, but I would caution people against the blanket barring of public servants from their property; some of us really are there to help and that's all we do.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Just like most of us would do when armed, unwelcome guests break into our home.

Our homes are not free fire zones, not even in Texas. (Rhino that's a case of .45acp).

If Officer Friendly knocks on my door and sez "everything O.K. in there?" or "want to buy tickets to the FOP pancake breakfast, Mr. Freeman" there is no threat of serious bodily injury or death.

If armed nogoodniks are in my home without invitation that is a different story.

So, what happened in Kansas? Did the cops just show up on the porch and knock, or did they storm the castle like ninjies?

I think all this . . . "concern" may be premature until this shakes out.

 

[INGunGuy]

I don't know how they decide on whom to check, but I know that I've been called to many "check well-being" calls over my career. In most cases, the person isn't answering his/her phone or hasn't shown up somewhere s/he was expected to be and it's a family member who's worried. Sometimes we arrive and after knocking on multiple doors, looking through all accessible windows, and making every effort, we find no one and no sign of a person in distress. Sometimes the person is the classic "I've fallen and I can't get up!" and can't reach the phone to call for help. On some occasions, the person is dead and has been for days.

Having a key available to enter would sure make it easier for us to get in and cheaper for the resident/homeowner who would not have to replace a door or window. If I see you down, I don't need a warrant for forcible entry, or at least I never have so far. (I could be wrong and would welcome correction if so, but I think that would be covered under the Good Samaritan law (Indiana Code 16-31-6).)

The thought that crosses my mind is if we arrive at someone's home who has mental problems/is not competent to make a rational decision, and is a danger to him/herself or others, we cannot in good conscience or under the law leave that person there, unattended. Such a person would probably be worked with to gain their agreement to voluntary transport, but if s/he was still refusing and/or violent, likely s/he would be taken by force (by police) and transported by us to a hospital for care. (No, we cannot just make that claim. There are objective criteria that must be met. Like LEOs, we must be able to articulate why this person is thought to be a danger. There is a little bit of subjectivity (i.e. experience, personal knowledge) which in most cases where it comes into play, does so in the patient's favor, at least if I'm the medic.)

Again, I don't know NJ's criteria for a well-being check/safety check/whatever, but I would caution people against the blanket barring of public servants from their property; some of us really are there to help and that's all we do.

Blessings,
Bill

Bill,

I know where you are coming from, and my example of the sign was to show how we as normal every-day red-blooded Americans can all the sudden become the "enemy combatants" because we choose to put up a sign telling government to **** off, or because we choose to not answer the door for the police because we want to be left alone. Right now, I have every right to vanish from the face of existence, I would have to go thru a pretty lengthy process to "vanish" but it can be done, just because I choose to "vanish" does that give the government the right to question me, because I may be someone that went missing? I dont think so, I have the right to privacy. As for the police, I know that about 60% are there to do a good job at policing, but it seems to me that the other 40% of which 25-30% are in it because of the power given to them as police officers make the good 60 percent look really really bad.

I am thankful that there are people out there who want to be police officers, I sure dont want the job. And I appreciate what they do, BUT, when what they do tramples on my right to privacy, then that is where we run into problems. No-knock warrants are a prime example of police running amok. I think that no-knock warrants should be deemed unconstitutional and never happen again. So please leave me alone if I dont want to be bothered. Or should it be like Nazi Germany, with "Ausweiss Bitte?" No matter what welfare check, etc...

Thanks,

INGunGuy

 

[kingnereli]

Our homes are not free fire zones, not even in Texas. (Rhino that's a case of .45acp).

If Officer Friendly knocks on my door and sez "everything O.K. in there?" or "want to buy tickets to the FOP pancake breakfast, Mr. Freeman" there is no threat of serious bodily injury or death.

If armed nogoodniks are in my home without invitation that is a different story.

So, what happened in Kansas? Did the cops just show up on the porch and knock, or did they storm the castle like ninjies?

I think all this . . . "concern" may be premature until this shakes out.

Premature? Probably. No more, though, the assuming an officer friendly scenario. We're all makeing some assumptions here as the article was quite thin on detail.

I don't recall anyone saying anything about a "free fire zone." Where did that come from?

 

[E5RANGER375]

I don't know how they decide on whom to check, but I know that I've been called to many "check well-being" calls over my career. In most cases, the person isn't answering his/her phone or hasn't shown up somewhere s/he was expected to be and it's a family member who's worried. Sometimes we arrive and after knocking on multiple doors, looking through all accessible windows, and making every effort, we find no one and no sign of a person in distress. Sometimes the person is the classic "I've fallen and I can't get up!" and can't reach the phone to call for help. On some occasions, the person is dead and has been for days.

Having a key available to enter would sure make it easier for us to get in and cheaper for the resident/homeowner who would not have to replace a door or window. If I see you down, I don't need a warrant for forcible entry, or at least I never have so far. (I could be wrong and would welcome correction if so, but I think that would be covered under the Good Samaritan law (Indiana Code 16-31-6).)

The thought that crosses my mind is if we arrive at someone's home who has mental problems/is not competent to make a rational decision, and is a danger to him/herself or others, we cannot in good conscience or under the law leave that person there, unattended. Such a person would probably be worked with to gain their agreement to voluntary transport, but if s/he was still refusing and/or violent, likely s/he would be taken by force (by police) and transported by us to a hospital for care. (No, we cannot just make that claim. There are objective criteria that must be met. Like LEOs, we must be able to articulate why this person is thought to be a danger. There is a little bit of subjectivity (i.e. experience, personal knowledge) which in most cases where it comes into play, does so in the patient's favor, at least if I'm the medic.)

Again, I don't know NJ's criteria for a well-being check/safety check/whatever, but I would caution people against the blanket barring of public servants from their property; some of us really are there to help and that's all we do.

Blessings,
Bill

bill before my wife became a nurse she worked as a paramedic & im a certified first responder (i dont do it for a living, its just a cert. i have), so i deffinately understand where you are coming from in regards to saving a life versus just ignoring a person who needs help or is incapacitated to not make a sound decision. i dont have a problem with EMS. i DO have a BIG problem with police trying to come on my property or in my home especialy. Its what im protected against in the constitution. and just like i am forced to follow laws even if i dont agree with them, then SO DO THEY!!!! also EMS are not a threat to my rights, police are!!! they are more a hazard to my rights than they are protectors. i will protect myself. i dont need any help.

just to show how EMS are no threat to someones rights, if you tell a medic or firefighter you have been drinking, THEY CANNOT (because of HIPPA regs) even tell the police you have been drinking!!!! they can say they smelled a sweet odor coming from your breath, but they CANNOT DISCLOSE ANY INFO YOU GIVE THEM!!! so fellow citizens: please feel at ease when talking to our good caring EMS folks!!! they realy are no threat to your freedom, all they TRUELY want to do is help you!!! give them a break and tell them the WHOLE TRUTH, it could save your life!! they need the whole picture to do their job, they probly know the answer anyways before you speak, but you need to be honest with them, they put up with a lot of unneccessary crap from people and ESPECIALLY COPS!! just like we do.

 

[byggpoppa]

I think this story and all similar stories all boil down to a central theme... some people are just plain stupid. It's a fact of life that some people, in whatever role, can be just plain STUPID. Dumb people do stupid things ... and unfortunately forced sterilization is not an option. So in the meantime those of us who are not su su su stooopid continue to keep paying the price for these morons.