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Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

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    Hatin Since 87

    Hatin Since 87

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    Mar 31, 2018
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    It's amazing how 1 little letter can change my emotions about the subject matter.

    HOA = Hate
    HOE = LOVE

    All HOAs are HOEs, but all HOEs are not HOA.



    Honestly. I havent read a single post in this thread in months. I don't even know the arguments, I just wanted to kill time at work while waiting, so threw some dumb ass comment in to try to get so many posts that trying to read thru them all to see if 50 of them are quality suddenly becomes too overwhelming and I can just buy the box of 22lr shells I joined for back in 2018. I hope he still has em.
     
    jkaetz

    jkaetz

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    Ingomike said:
    Cross that bridge when it gets here…
    Click to expand...
    What happens when circumstances dictate, for whatever reason(s), that you
    • must purchase a new or modern truck.
    • All new or modern trucks must be connected to the internet to function properly.
    • All new or modern trucks now have a required set of restrictions that prevent you from carrying/towing too much weight, speeding, traveling more than 8 hours without a 12 hour rest, Painting it a color that isn't pink, and report your milage driven for tax purposes .
    • These things have all been determined to be good for the consumers by reducing driving fatigue and crash risk while ensuring that you only pay for the maintenance needed on the roads you drive and have no more speeding tickets. We're also now saving the environment by getting rid of dark colors.

    Will you finally join the rest of us and push back against being able to restrict/control something you no longer own simply because there is some legalese that allows it?
     
    Ingomike

    Ingomike

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    jkaetz said:
    What happens when circumstances dictate, for whatever reason(s), that you
    • must purchase a new or modern truck.
    • All new or modern trucks must be connected to the internet to function properly.
    • All new or modern trucks now have a required set of restrictions that prevent you from carrying/towing too much weight, speeding, traveling more than 8 hours without a 12 hour rest, Painting it a color that isn't pink, and report your milage driven for tax purposes .
    • These things have all been determined to be good for the consumers by reducing driving fatigue and crash risk while ensuring that you only pay for the maintenance needed on the roads you drive and have no more speeding tickets. We're also now saving the environment by getting rid of dark colors.

    Will you finally join the rest of us and push back against being able to restrict/control something you no longer own simply because there is some legalese that allows it?
    Click to expand...
    I do not see the analogy you do. Real property covenants, restrictions, and HOA are not analogous to the manufacturers monitoring users.
     
    phylodog

    phylodog

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    Ingomike said:
    The only cognitive bias is refusing to acknowledge that what you want in the name of freedom, actually takes freedom by those saying it does not take freedom. Please show where I said stats? Do you trust surveys that say majorities want guns outlawed? Most surveys on websites, are even not professional polls, they are just questions answered by those who visit their website that are willing to take the time to respond. Is that a representative sample? Then they publish those surveys with headlines to get clicks.

    Stats from the real estate should be reliable as long as the data is from the MLS, which is what most news sources use. Big difference.
    Click to expand...
    You don't have the freedom to control property you no longer own.
     
    jkaetz

    jkaetz

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    Ingomike said:
    I do not see the analogy you do. Real property covenants, restrictions, and HOA are not analogous to the manufacturers monitoring users.
    Click to expand...
    You don't wish to see it. The similarities are all there. If they were actually the same then it wouldn't be an analogy.

    • Entity controls a thing
    • Entity sets restrictions on the thing
    • Entity sells thing with restrictions
    • All entities selling the thing put the same restrictions on
    • It's legal, you're free to not purchase the thing, but you really need the thing so you don't really have a choice even if you don't like the terms.
     
    Ingomike

    Ingomike

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    jkaetz said:
    You don't wish to see it. The similarities are all there. If they were actually the same then it wouldn't be an analogy.

    • Entity controls a thing
    • Entity sets restrictions on the thing
    • Entity sells thing with restrictions
    • All entities selling the thing put the same restrictions on
    • It's legal, you're free to not purchase the thing, but you really need the thing so you don't really have a choice even if you don't like the terms.
    Click to expand...
    I don’t like it but I can choose not to buy it. Same with land, l doubt I would buy 20 acres without the complete bundle of rights, but it still is the landowners right to sell it that way.
     
    foszoe

    foszoe

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    jkaetz said:
    You don't wish to see it. The similarities are all there. If they were actually the same then it wouldn't be an analogy.

    • Entity controls a thing
    • Entity sets restrictions on the thing
    • Entity sells thing with restrictions
    • All entities selling the thing put the same restrictions on
    • It's legal, you're free to not purchase the thing, but you really need the thing so you don't really have a choice even if you don't like the terms.
    Click to expand...
    Use widget. Any idgit can understand a widget.
     
    foszoe

    foszoe

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    Ingomike said:
    I don’t like it but I can choose not to buy it. Same with land, l doubt I would buy 20 acres without the complete bundle of rights, but it still is the landowners right to sell it that way.
    Click to expand...
    You would only do that so you could set up your own HOA, be a perpetual board member with inheritance rights to your appointees, and divide up 10 acres into 20 lots. With your compound on the remaining 10 while your serfs tilled the land!

    :stickpoke:
     
    phylodog

    phylodog

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    Ingomike said:
    Why not? You keep insisting this is the case but I do not know of any law that says an owner cannot. In fact it is done commonly. Is this what you wish for or are yo saying it is law now?
    Click to expand...
    Because it doesn't make sense Mike. When you sell something, you no longer have authority over it, that's part of selling it. If I sell a vehicle I don't control what the next owner does with it, nobody would do that because it doesn't make sense (I'm not talking about collector cars).

    Can there be instances where there is something about a piece of property which needs to be protected? Absolutely, I have zero problems with putting land in to protection against development. There is nothing that greed won't eagerly destroy and there are situations where the law should step in where needed and provide that protection (parks/wilderness areas as an example).

    Dictating what color people paint their house, which activities they may engage in on their own property or which flags are approved to be flown doesn't come anywhere near rising to the level of legitimate importance which could justify changing the basic foundations of private ownership. You disagree, that's fine, I don't. HOA rules like those I mention are petty and the fact that someone changing the oil in their own car in their own driveway could result in their home being foreclosed on sounds like something out of a bad comedy show, not something which should be happening in a free country where people are encouraged to "own" their home. Yeah, they get to "own" it, but....
     
    phylodog

    phylodog

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    Ingomike said:
    Is this what you wish for or are yo saying it is law now?
    Click to expand...
    Statements like these have convinced me 100% that you are a liberal democrat. I've never met even an independent who thinks like you. It's as if your computer rearranges the words in my sentences before it allows you to read them or something.
     
    phylodog

    phylodog

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    Ingomike said:
    I don’t like it but I can choose not to buy it. Same with land, l doubt I would buy 20 acres without the complete bundle of rights, but it still is the landowners right to sell it that way.
    Click to expand...
    What if 20 acre lots were the smallest available and the only thing within your budget other than pissing your money away on rent for the next two decades? Still just a choice not to buy, right? No harm in 90% of the 20 acre lots being locked down with HOAs in that situation, there's still a ton of choice left in that 10%. Throw in a hot seller's market, stupid low interest rates and 20 acre lots selling for 20% over asking sight unseen within hours of listing and the "choice" stops feeling quite so much like a choice.
     
    F

    firecadet613

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    Ingomike said:
    I do. I have been on the board several times.
    Click to expand...
    Creedmoor said:
    Imagine that.
    Click to expand...
    As have others in this thread who are against HOAs.
    phylodog said:
    Because it doesn't make sense Mike. When you sell something, you no longer have authority over it, that's part of selling it. If I sell a vehicle I don't control what the next owner does with it, nobody would do that because it doesn't make sense (I'm not talking about collector cars).
    Click to expand...
    You'd think that, but that's not the law in regards to real estate.
    phylodog said:
    What if 20 acre lots were the smallest available and the only thing within your budget other than pissing your money away on rent for the next two decades? Still just a choice not to buy, right? No harm in 90% of the 20 acre lots being locked down with HOAs in that situation, there's still a ton of choice left in that 10%. Throw in a hot seller's market, stupid low interest rates and 20 acre lots selling for 20% over asking sight unseen within hours of listing and the "choice" stops feeling quite so much like a choice.
    Click to expand...
    Welcome to a hot real estate market.

    Have we ever seen a market like we did post COVID? I'm genuinely asking, if we did it was before I was in the market. But even in the  hot market, I know plenty (myself included) who were able to find what they were looking for.

    And for all intensive purposes, now the market is about dead.
     
    phylodog

    phylodog

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    firecadet613 said:
    Have we ever seen a market like we did post COVID? I'm genuinely asking, if we did it was before I was in the market. But even in the  hot market, I know plenty (myself included) who were able to find what they were looking for.
    Click to expand...
    Absolutely. When we bought this house in 2018 the market was on fire and had been. We'd been looking for two years at that point and hadn't found what we were looking for but the few we actually considered compromising on were gone before we could discuss it. The first people who walked in the door of my last house took it at asking price the first day it was on the market and there was nothing special about that house ($220k range).

    When we bought our current house in 2018 the neighbors all thought we were nuts for paying what we did, I knew better. Within a year the value was easily up 40%. Timing and location both worked very well in our favor. We had a signed purchase agreement by 1pm the day our house hit the market. The following day they had an open house and over 70 people showed up.

    The market had been ramping up for years before Covid. What Covid spiked was the demand for rural properties. Prior to Covid, rural prices were considerably more reasonable than they are now. As an example, my best friend bought 85 acres for $200k in early 2019. Last summer he bought 15 acres that butted up against it, and was just a continuation of the same woods & ag fields and he had to pay $100k to get it.
     
    Last edited:
    Ingomike

    Ingomike

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    phylodog said:
    You don't have the freedom to control property you no longer own.
    Click to expand...
    Ingomike said:
    Is this what you wish for or are yo saying it is law now?
    Click to expand...
    phylodog said:
    Statements like these have convinced me 100% that you are a liberal democrat. I've never met even an independent who thinks like you. It's as if your computer rearranges the words in my sentences before it allows you to read them or something.
    Click to expand...
    You said it like you believe that is the way it is in law. Do you believe people “don’t have the freedom to control property they don’t own“ is the law now?
     
    F

    firecadet613

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    phylodog said:
    Absolutely. When we bought this house in 2018 the market was on fire and had been. We'd been looking for two years at that point and hadn't found what we were looking for but the few we actually considered compromising on were gone before we could discuss it. The first people who walked in the door of my last house took it at asking price the first day it was on the market and there was nothing special about that house ($220k range).

    When we bought our current house in 2018 the neighbors all thought we were nuts for paying what we did, I knew better. Within a year the value was easily up 40%. Timing and location both worked very well in our favor. We had a signed purchase agreement by 1pm the day our house hit the market. The following day they had an open house and over 70 people showed up.

    The market had been ramping up for years before Covid. What Covid spiked was the demand for rural properties. Prior to Covid, rural prices were considerably more reasonable than they are now. As an example, my best friend bought 85 acres for $200k in early 2019. Last summer he bought 15 acres that butted up against it, and was just a continuation of the same woods & ag fields and he had to pay $100k to get it.
    Click to expand...
    OK, I'll correct my statement. Prior to 2015 - have we ever seen a market this hot?
     
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