What DO we tell women?

[kludge]

Help me out ladies... not sure if this is the right forum, since it's not necessarily firearm related, but at least it's about women.

OK, so I was strolling through Gander Mountain and saw pepper spray in a pink container with proceeds going to support breast cancer research. OK, cool. Then I thought how cool it would be if there a pink pistol version. Then I almost laughed at how absurd the breast cancer awareness people would think I was for suggesting such a thing.

Lately I have been thinking (again) about some of the things that we (not WE, INGO, but we, like police, women's groups, etc.) tell women they should do if attacked...

I have heard several times from women, in regards to carrying a gun say, "Jeez, I don't want to kill anyone!"

Just a few months ago my mom went to the Indy 1500 with me and she bought a stun gun. I asked her "Why would you want anyone that close to you?" (She has a .38 and LTCH).

Some of the other advice you see given makes me wonder "What are we really telling women?" Carry your keys like brass knuckles. Tell the guy who wants to rape you that you have AIDS. Make yourself throw up. Take a self defense class. Don't carry a handgun, he'll just take it from you and use it against you. What about your mace or stun gun? Won't he just take that too?

Personally I don't get the whole "I don't want to kill anyone" thing.

Of course you don't, but obviously the thug couldn't give a rats @$$ about what what happens to you!

I have a sister who is 6'1" and played college basketball, she probably weighs 190#. She is STRONG, but I would even worry about her abilities after taking "a self defense class."

Sure, sometimes the non-lethal techniques work, but sometimes they don't.

"Don't come near me; I'll scratch you with my keys!"

"I'll puke on you!"

"I'll stomp on your toe and poke you in the eye and kick you in the groin!"

"I have AIDS!!!"
"Hey, me too, baby!"

Are they kidding? (Or am I sexist? ... Really.)

 

[Ri22o]

Interesting. I'm curious to hear what the womens have to say.

 

[Scutter01]

I think we (as a society, not me personally) do women a disservice by telling them to be victims. All of the things that you said are poor-planning, last-resort, passive-aggressive ways to "protect" yourself. They're the equivalent of feel-good do-nothing policies.

I tell women the same thing that I tell men: I expect and require you to be able to defend yourself. YOU are your own bodyguard. A self-defense class is worth exactly the time you put into it. A three-hour class is useless. A three-hour class twice per week for two years is deadly. I'm not saying you need to become an expert martial artist, or a deadly-accurate marksman. Just do SOMETHING.

It's a fact of nature that women are generally weaker than men. Websites like Cornered Cat explain this in much more detail than I will here. That does not mean they have to be helpless in the face of an attacker, and puking on them ain't it. Holy cow, I'd love to meet the person who can puke on cue and then give them a nice green bean casserole!

 

[Fletch]

Don't carry a handgun, he'll just take it from you and use it against you.

My answer to that is always Sammie Foust.

 

[Pami]

First, read some of the other threads in this forum (and this was the right place for this post, imho). We're fortunate at INGO in that with our very small female membership, we still have a wide range of emotions and life experiences when it comes to handling firearms. We have a couple of girls who are so new to firearms they've only fired one once. We have a couple like me who are still new to firearms, but have embraced it and are in the process of changing their mindsets to a place "most" men are already at. And we have a couple of women here who are completely comfortable around firearms and fully embrace the idea that guns are tools, period.

Second, pink guns already exist.
clicky 1 --> News - Gander Mountain™ > We Live Outdoors - Hunting, Fishing, Camping, Outdoor Recreation, Apparel & Footwear, Gunsmithing
clicky 2 --> Taurus Millenium Pro
When I first changed my tune about guns, I was seriously looking at the pink Millenium because it seemed less threatening to me. I remember looking at it at Gander Mountain one day, and the clerk made the comment that I would have to shoot the BG in the kneecaps twice just to prove I was serious because the BG would think it was a toy and wouldn't be intimidated by it at all. My response was, "Exactly." If someone's not intimidated enough by it when it's being pointed at them, I'm certainly not going to be intimidated by it holding it. You have no idea how proud Lars was when I bought the P226. We walked out of Cabela's, and he said, "You know what just happened in there?" I said, "I just handled about ten different pistols?" He replied, "Yeah.. and every single one of them was all black." (This set of anecdotes, by the way, is how my affliction for pink became so infamous on this board.)

But I am the kind of person Gander Mountain was marketing to when they came up with the idea of pink guns. Women like me have been raised to be protected, not protectors. We have been taught .. brainwashed .. that guns are Evil and Black and They Can Hurt You. Pink, however, is the universal color for all that is sweet and innocent and fluffy. Pink can't hurt you. The marketing scheme was great... for people like me.

In one of the threads elsewhere on this forum, someone posted a photo of Annie Oakley that stated that she spent the later years of her life teaching women how to shoot and advocating that all women should carry concealed handguns. In this day and age, women are taught to be victims. Give the BG what he wants, and hopefully you'll come out alive and unhurt. (Since I've turned to the dark side and have moved out of my safe pink fuzzy slippers, I realize this is highly unlikely.)

Scutter's right.. sites like Cornered Cat have covered this is great detail, and I think he hit the nail on the head with this comment:

I think we (as a society, not me personally) do women a disservice by telling them to be victims. All of the things that you said are poor-planning, last-resort, passive-aggressive ways to "protect" yourself. They're the equivalent of feel-good do-nothing policies.

 

[kludge]

Pami, I had seen the pink Tauruses before going up to check out (where the sprays were), which is probably why I made the connection.

Personally, I think handguns should be standard issue to every young woman on here 18th birthday. What would the criminals do if the KNEW every woman on the street had a gun?

Has anyone here taken the NRA "Refuse to be a Victim" class? AFAIK it stresses awareness, but what else? Of course planning ahead and awareness are key "tactics."

 

[EatMeerkats]

OK, so I was strolling through Gander Mountain and saw pepper spray in a pink container with proceeds going to support breast cancer research. OK, cool. Then I thought how cool it would be if there a pink pistol version. Then I almost laughed at how absurd the breast cancer awareness people would think I was for suggesting such a thing.

Have you seen the Julie Goloski M&P? Product: Smith & Wesson M&P9 - JG

 

[Jay]

Agreed, generally, men are physically stronger than women. Having said that, I believe that women are psychologically stronger, and from an instruction point of view, women are much easier to teach than men are...... they usually do NOT have an ego for me to work around.

Some of the ladies I've shot with will gladly take you to the range and show you that their pink pistol can consistently compete with a black one. A potential threat will not be concerned with the color of the firearm that shot him/her.

 

[Crystalship1]

from an instruction point of view, women are much easier to teach than men are...... they usually do NOT have an ego for me to work around.

Exactly correct!!!!

Also no macho B.S. or pre-conceived notions about gun handling that they learned from TV!!! :rolleyesedit:

 

[Pami]

Exactly correct!!!!

Also no macho B.S. or pre-conceived notions about gun handling that they learned from TV!!! :rolleyesedit:

That's right... I'm going to call up Angelina Jolie and see if she'll personally teach me to curve the bullet. You just can't learn stuff like that from the big screen.

 

[Crystalship1]

That's right... I'm going to call up Angelina Jolie and see if she'll personally teach me to curve the bullet.

Was that not the most stupid Hollywood created / shooting-related piece of dung you've ever seen?!?!?!? :rolleyesedit:

But then again.... she does want to be French!!!

 

[kludge]

Actually...

The lateral movement imparted by the gun will cause a lateral movement in the bullet... as the bullet slows down the movement will become more pronounced. It's first semester physics.

Now, how much will the bullet actually "curve"?

Let's assume that a person can sling the gun sideways at 30mph. That's 44 fps.

Let's also assume that the bullet is travelling 1,000 fps.

Neglecting air resistance and gravity, the bullet will travel about 44 feet per 1,000 feet travelled (actually you would have to do some trigonometry, but the angle is small enough to ignore, and it's Saturday.)

So if you were shooting at a target 100 feet away (33 yards) the bullet would go 4.4 feet sideways.

However... the bullet does not curve... it still goes in a straight line (assuming no air resistance, which we will ignore with short shooting distances), it's just a straight line at an angle. If you include gravity and air resistance, the bullet will "curve" (not much), but again it's Satuday, and I'm not doing any calculus on Saturday.

Needless to say, you would still probably miss the intended target.

And it violates RULE #4.

... and now that everyone knows how much of a geek I am...

 

[Crystalship1]

... and now that everyone knows how much of a geek I am...

Oui, oui!!!

 

[paddling_man]

What did I tell women about the guns and when? Relatively early - 3rd or 4th date. If you tell 'em on the first, they are usually convinced you're a psycho. Honestly, if on the first date with a lovely lady the primary thing you're dying to tell her is about your guns, you might have a problem.

When I introduced the subject, I tried to inflect no more passion than I would when discussing any other tool... hammer, screwdriver, whatever. If you become too excitable discussing your gun on an early date... well, things don't typically bode well for further romance.

Hmmm... How to broach the subject?

How about this?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oLpGXVa3hM"]YouTube - This Is My Boomstick![/ame]

 

[flagtag]

Was that not the most stupid Hollywood created / shooting-related piece of dung you've ever seen?!?!?!? :rolleyesedit:

But then again.... she does want to be French!!!

I can just see some brain-dead idiot trying that stunt! "Well, it worked in the movie". Duh!
Hollywierd is raising our children? We're in deep do do!

As for vomiting to "discourage" your attacker - ISP (Illinois State Police) suggest women carry a tongue depresser and use it to induce vomiting (gag reflex). Wow! They (ISP) care SO MUCH about our safety. We're blessed! NOT!

 

[indyjoe]

... and now that everyone knows how much of a geek I am...

Well I'm a domesticated geek. I thought the same thing, but just kept my mouth shut.

As for vomiting to "discourage" your attacker - ISP (Illinois State Police) suggest women carry a tongue depresser and use it to induce vomiting (gag reflex). Wow! They (ISP) care SO MUCH about our safety. We're blessed! NOT!

I thought that living in Illinois was enough to trigger the gag reflex.

 

[flagtag]

Well I'm a domesticated geek. I thought the same thing, but just kept my mouth shut.



I thought that living in Illinois was enough to trigger the gag reflex.

On a daily basis! (No, I'm NOT pregnant!)

 

[Ri22o]

I was at Bradis today, and wouldn't you know it, they just got in 2 pink Walther P22s. One with a stainless slide, the other with a black slide.

 

[JetGirl]

Help me out ladies...

Lately I have been thinking (again) about some of the things that we (not WE, INGO, but we, like police, women's groups, etc.) tell women they should do if attacked...

I have heard several times from women, in regards to carrying a gun say, "Jeez, I don't want to kill anyone!"

Personally I don't get the whole "I don't want to kill anyone" thing.

I've been following along in this thread and in answer to the original post, I'd suggest leading in with "nobody wants to kill anyone, but it's not about that. It's about STOPPING THE THREAT."
I find it ludicrous that most of the hardcore feminists on the planet are in favor of gun control which effectively disarms the vulnerable and makes them easy prey. They're the same ones who endorse the vomit trick or carrying a rape whistle. :rolleyesedit:
If your question boils down to "what do you say to a woman to get her thinking about carrying?", I'd start with letting her know how important her life and safety is to you and letting her know that she needs to find herself important enough to defend.
I grew up in a very "do what the man says" atmosphere. Much later in my life it took a man's point of view to get me to look at my own life as worth protecting for MYSELF instead of leaving it up to someone else. It took him asking me what I wanted to teach my daughter about the value of her life.
Also, most people hear all the bad stories circulating and think "that's terrible for them, but that could never happen to me."
There's no way to talk someone out of that mindset. Unfortunately, that's one of those situations that will only change when the "something bad" actually does happen to them. The saying is true for me..."I carry a weapon because a cop won't fit in my pocket."

 

[Coach]

This is a topic that I need to think about a lot more. I have a nine year old daughter, and I basically know what I plan to do with her. To borrow Col. Cooper's mentality I am going to teach her everything I know and expect to keep her mothers feminity at the same time.

I have been working with her about guns and gun safety and gun handling since she was old enough to listen. I take great pride in her gun handling skills. But perhaps I need to think about some self defense measures against bullies at school and thing like that.

I looked through the Corner Cat website a little and was pleasently surprised by what is there. It agrees with my take on physical strength. Every non-criminal should carry a gun and that goes twice for women. Carrying a gun that they can use and are prepared to use is their best chance in a bad situation.