Knife fighting/training open discussion of methods.

the1kidd03 · May 23, 2012

In light of another thread and in the interest of causing another thread jacking, this thread is to discuss knife combatives training. GO!

Starting point: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2944929&posted=1#post2944929

jeremy · May 23, 2012

LOL!

Never throw your knife...

the1kidd03 · May 23, 2012

jeremy said:
LOL!

Never throw your knife...

BUT Jason Statham Does!!!

purple?!?

the1kidd03 · May 23, 2012

Like I said previously, if I'm in an "offensive" situation (which is highly unlikely because I TRY to avoid pointless confrontation) then I prefer the "normal" grip because of the flexibility in the wrist. It can be used to strike from more adverse conditions and confuse the enemy in direction of attack.

As for "defensive" I prefer the "reverse" grip because there isn't as much need to confuse when you can typically "use their aggression" against them. :twocents:

the1kidd03 · May 23, 2012

jeremy said:
LOL!

Never throw your knife...

So, rules?! LOL

#1. You're GOING to get cut
#2. Don't throw your knife

jeremy · May 23, 2012

As I noted in the other thread, I prefer to use a Dagger and do not really change my grip from an offensive to a defensive one. I prefer to use a traditional grip, but will occasionally chage to a Pikal...

the1kidd03 · May 23, 2012

jeremy said:
As I noted in the other thread, I prefer to use a Dagger and do not really change my grip from an offensive to a defensive one. I prefer to use a traditional grip, but will occasionally chage to a Pikal...

By "daggar" I assume you mean a double edged blade? That is optimal in knife fighting (based on my experience.)

jeremy · May 23, 2012

the1kidd03 said:
By "daggar" I assume you mean a double edged blade? That is optimal in knife fighting (based on my experience.)

Exactly, and I prefer a Dagger with a blade of about 8 inches of edge...

Dragon · May 23, 2012

Hold a knife in one grip, measure your overall reach, then change grip and measure your overall length. You will find that your reach is significantly longer in the "normal"/forward knife grip versus the "ice pick". Does that make it a better grip? Not necessarily but it's called reach advantage for a reason.

I regularly practice knife fighting and can use my reach advantage over opponents to a great result which tells me that if I had to square off with someone and fight with a knife, this is how I would do it. Now if I wanted to hide the blade, that would change.

iChokePeople · May 23, 2012

Dragon said:
Hold a knife in one grip, measure your overall reach, then change grip and measure your overall length. You will find that your reach is significantly longer in the "normal"/forward knife grip versus the "ice pick". Does that make it a better grip? Not necessarily but it's called reach advantage for a reason.

I regularly practice knife fighting and can use my reach advantage over opponents to a great result which tells me that if I had to square off with someone and fight with a knife, this is how I would do it. Now if I wanted to hide the blade, that would change.

^^ Perfect, wrote it for me.

the1kidd03 · May 23, 2012

jeremy said:
Exactly, and I prefer a Dagger with a blade of about 8 inches of edge...

Indeed. Me too. I have a S&W boot knife I tend to favor. It's small enough to conceal well and comfortably but still has at least a 6" double edged blade. I try NOT to boot carry it though. :n00b:

the1kidd03 · May 23, 2012

Dragon said:
Hold a knife in one grip, measure your overall reach, then change grip and measure your overall length. You will find that your reach is significantly longer in the "normal"/forward knife grip versus the "ice pick". Does that make it a better grip? Not necessarily but it's called reach advantage for a reason.

I regularly practice knife fighting and can use my reach advantage over opponents to a great result which tells me that if I had to square off with someone and fight with a knife, this is how I would do it. Now if I wanted to hide the blade, that would change.

Agreed, but reach advantage is for the one who's on the "offensive" take, which I'm not likely to be in. "Defensive," let them try to hyper extend their limbs (using reach advantage) and bring themselves off balance by trying to avoid getting cut themselves. "It doesn't pay to play offensively."

iChokePeople · May 23, 2012

the1kidd03 said:
Agreed, but reach advantage is for the one who's on the "offensive" take, which I'm not likely to be in. "Defensive," let them try to hyper extend their limbs and bring themselves off balance by trying to avoid getting cut themselves. "It doesn't pay to play offensively."

IMHO, reach plays any time you're in that range -- offensive, defensive, doesn't matter. Knife, stick, boxing, doesn't matter. RANGE matters. Once you're at trapping/grappling range, it's OBE. At 21', it only matters if one guys reach is 21'6". But at "that" range, it matters.

Dragon · May 23, 2012

the1kidd03 said:
Agreed, but reach advantage is for the one who's on the "offensive" take, which I'm not likely to be in. "Defensive," let them try to hyper extend their limbs (using reach advantage) and bring themselves off balance by trying to avoid getting cut themselves. "It doesn't pay to play offensively."

I'm not going to be in the situation unless it's defensive. If I'm in the situation I will be trying to kill the person, therefore defense turns to offense. If you don't play offensively you risk losing, and if you lose you die.

the1kidd03 · May 23, 2012

iChokePeople said:
IMHO, reach plays any time you're in that range -- offensive, defensive, doesn't matter. Knife, stick, boxing, doesn't matter. RANGE maggers. Once you're at trapping/grappling range, it's OBE. At 21', it only matters if one guys reach is 21'6". But at "that" range, it matters.

IME, when you try to use that reach, you're hyper extending limbs and thus leaving them vulnerable. I would not recommend this when blades are involved. Exposing fully stretched muscles exposed to your opponent's blade can easily render you without a grasp, reach, or various other movements. Boxing, etc. of course reach helps. It will in blades as long as your opponent is simply standing their allowing you to strike or walking into your blade. :n00b:

Otherwise, he will be moving away or in the same direction of your strike, trying to eliminate the reach benefit.

the1kidd03 · May 23, 2012

Dragon said:
I'm not going to be in the situation unless it's defensive. If I'm in the situation I will be trying to kill the person, therefore defense turns to offense. If you don't play offensively you risk losing, and if you lose you die.

When I discern "offense" or "defense" assume I'm referring to a situation where you can see your attacker and you are currently at "stand off" distance. Of course, in a real life situation this is rarely the circumstances though. The person to initiate the aggression at stand off distance, is going to try to use their reach to avoid being cut themselves. Exposing balance and muscular vulnerabilities.

hacksawfg · May 23, 2012

I like pikal primarily because of the ability to hook and pull while cutting. I'm probably not going to have a reach advantage regardless of grip, because I like shorter blades to begin with. My goal is to minimize the damage I take to get close enough to control that knife hand so I can get some shots in as well, because I know either way I'm getting cut.

Same thing in martial arts when I spar with my instructor. He's faster, more flexible, and he's got a lot more reach than I will ever have, plus he's got a lot more experience. Only way I can hit him is to take whatever shots I need to get in close, because if I try and dodge or use what reach I have he just tees off on me.

the1kidd03 · May 23, 2012

hacksawfg said:
I like pikal primarily because of the ability to hook and pull while cutting. I'm probably not going to have a reach advantage regardless of grip, because I like shorter blades to begin with. My goal is to minimize the damage I take to get close enough to control that knife hand so I can get some shots in as well, because I know either way I'm getting cut.

Same thing in martial arts when I spar with my instructor. He's faster, more flexible, and he's got a lot more reach than I will ever have, plus he's got a lot more experience. Only way I can hit him is to take whatever shots I need to get in close.

Indeed, but with blades you must try your best to minimize those shots or at least take them to "strong" areas that aren't going to take you out of the fight necessarily. Hard to do of course, but to survive I'll sacrifice a hand or finger vs an entire arm, etc.

iChokePeople · May 23, 2012

the1kidd03 said:
IME, when you try to use that reach, you're hyper extending limbs and thus leaving them vulnerable. I would not recommend this when blades are involved. Exposing fully stretched muscles exposed to your opponent's blade can easily render you without a grasp, reach, or various other movements. Boxing, etc. of course reach helps. It will in blades as long as your opponent is simply standing their allowing you to strike or walking into your blade.

Test your theory.

hacksawfg · May 23, 2012

the1kidd03 said:
Indeed, but with blades you must try your best to minimize those shots or at least take them to "strong" areas that aren't going to take you out of the fight necessarily. Hard to do of course, but to survive I'll sacrifice a hand or finger vs an entire arm, etc.

What I like about pikal is if the aggressor overextends I can hook that wrist, pull them further off balance while cutting the tendons, etc. that allows them to make a fist, hold a weapon, etc. As soon as that foot is planted to stay on your feet, they're in big trouble. I prefer using defensive stances that would hopefully cause an aggressor to have second thoughts about what might happen if he doesn't get me right away.

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