Circle Center soon to become Fed Gun Free Zone...

[K_W]

Circle Center soon to become Gun Free Zone...

http://fox59.com/2015/09/14/high-school-in-circle-centre-mall-set-to-open-next-month/


An alternative High School is set to open inside Circle Center... as we all SHOULD know, a school on a property makes the WHOLE PROPERTY a GFZ... so when it opens ALL of Circle Center will be a victim zone.

Looks like the Simon's found a way to ban guns once and for all.

This will be Simon's 27th school inside one of its malls

IC 35-31.5-2-285
"School property"
Sec. 285. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by: [Does not specify in whole or in part, this is the operative line that makes the ban]
(A) a school corporation; [IPS is renting or maybe owning the space]
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2
....

(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common
with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1) [i.e. they share/rent/designate one parking space and the whole lot/garage is GFZ]

 

[actaeon277]

I could be wrong, but isn't it the property owned by the school?

The school does not own the mall.

 

[K_W]

I could be wrong, but isn't it the property owned by the school?

The school does not own the mall.

The law does not state "part" of building. It says "building".

If there is a school in a building the building is a school.

The interesting part will be where if they get rented or reserved parking or garage space and then does that makes that whole lot part of it too, if so, then you won't even have to go to Circle Center to be affected.

Park in their designated lot and step out without securing you arms... felony?

 

[pudly]

This is going to be interesting when the NRA convention comes back to town.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Think there was some other examples for strip malls that had schools in them. I don't remember the outcome.

 

[K_W]

Think there was some other examples for strip malls that had schools in them. I don't remember the outcome.

The Childrens Museum of Indianapolis is another example... the Children's Museum itself is not a school, but they have a school inside, so the whole complex is a school under the I.C.

This has been discussed at length on INGO and is a well known "non-school" Gun Free School Zone.

 

[K_W]

This is going to be interesting when the NRA convention comes back to town.

I would not be surprised if that was their plan. They've been trying to ban guns in their malls for years. Now they've figured out a way.

They own A LOT of malls and if they can offer up small pieces to the local schools in all of them, they get guns banned in their malls by default.


From linked story....

This will be Simon's 27th school inside one of its malls

Bingo!...

 

[actaeon277]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...rrying-strip-mall-store-could-legal-trap.html


Except what im seeing is a strip mall and children's museum are not the same.

Maybe if the school owned the strip mall. Or if it was the same owner.
Guess we'll have to wait for one of the INGO lawyers to speak up.

 

[voidsherpa]

Quick, someone go try and lease space for a gunsmith.

 

[actaeon277]

IC 35-47-9-2 talks about "school property"
So you'd have to make the argument the mall is "school property".

 

[K_W]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...rrying-strip-mall-store-could-legal-trap.html


Except what im seeing is a strip mall and children's museum are not the same.

Maybe if the school owned the strip mall. Or if it was the same owner.
Guess we'll have to wait for one of the INGO lawyers to speak up.

No answer in that thread. Answers from multiple threads about a school in non school building type topic say "No go."

 

[K_W]

IC 35-47-9-2 talks about "school property"
So you'd have to make the argument the mall is "school property".

You forgot...

IC 35-31.5-2-285
"School property"
Sec. 285. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by: [Does not specify in whole or in part, this is the operative line that makes the ban]
(A) a school corporation; [IPS is renting the space]
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 [The on site daycare in the case of the Children's Museum.]

....

(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common
with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1) [i.e. they share/rent/designate one parking space and the whole lot/garage is GFZ]

 

[Bill of Rights]

High school in Circle Centre Mall set to open next month | Fox 59


An alternative High School is set to open inside Circle Center... as we all SHOULD know, a school on a property makes the WHOLE PROPERTY a GFZ... so when it opens ALL of Circle Center will be a victim zone.

Looks like the Simon's found a way to ban guns once and for all.



IC 35-31.5-2-285
"School property"
Sec. 285. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by: [Does not specify in whole or in part, this is the operative line that makes the ban]
(A) a school corporation; [IPS is renting or maybe owning the space]
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2
....

(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common
with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1) [i.e. they share/rent/designate one parking space and the whole lot/garage is GFZ]

There is the federal GFZ act, however, AZ has had a law on the books for at least 10, maybe more years allowing the carry of a handgun by a permit holder within K-12 schools, so the Fed GFZ act does not seem to apply. Given that, you've cited state law for Indiana, and that is subject to change. We have assurance in another thread I was just reading that Rep. Lucas will again be introducing a bill for Constitutional Carry, and the IN "School GFZ" law was just recently modified to no longer criminalize the possession of a firearm in a locked vehicle by a LTCH holder... which is to say it can be changed again to further relax the laws governing possession of objects, or even their carry.

In short, I welcome Simon pushing this change... it only adds fuel for Mr. Lucas to use to change the law so as not to criminalize good people just going about their daily business.

I will also forward to him a link to this thread.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[K_W]

With addition of the school it will be federal zone also, but the state law seems to be what Simon is seemingly trying to use to ban guns, as there is no carry permit holder exemption like the Federal law has.

The potential problem with Constitutional Carry and the federal gun free law is that you are required to be licensed to carry the firearm by the state that you are in... if there is no license requirement, fine... But you are not exempt from the law unless you have the license.

That is also the problem with Indiana and the Fed GFSZ law currently, since Indiana does not license rifles for possession, potentially anybody in possession of a rifle within a thousand feet of a school is in violation of federal law.

 

[PRasko]

Honestly though, who the hell shops at malls anyways?

I understand the entire, it's not right, part, but why patronize any business associated with some jackass that wants his customers to be victims?

Of all the times I've been to mishiwaka, I've never once set a foot in the U.P mall.

 

[dusty88]

Just because the mall corporation is leasing space to a school does not mean it's part of a widespread plot to create more legal gun-free zones. I don't see them seeking out 1 special tenant on the chance that it makes their mall legally "gun free".

 

[pudly]

Just because the mall corporation is leasing space to a school does not mean it's part of a widespread plot to create more legal gun-free zones. I don't see them seeking out 1 special tenant on the chance that it makes their mall legally "gun free".

I'll go with this. I'm very familiar with that mall and Simon has had a hard time getting businesses to lease space on the third floor. The fact that this will be a problem for gun owners won't cause them to lose any sleep, but I doubt it is near the top of their priorities with this deal. I am however, very concerned for the sudden increase in penalties for anyone entering the mall and not seeing or obeying the no firearms signs. It is suddenly going from a being asked to leave situation to a leaving in handcuffs and losing your gun rights situation.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I'll go with this. I'm very familiar with that mall and Simon has had a hard time getting businesses to lease space on the third floor. The fact that this will be a problem for gun owners won't cause them to lose any sleep, but I doubt it is near the top of their priorities with this deal. I am however, very concerned for the sudden increase in penalties for anyone entering the mall and not seeing or obeying the no firearms signs. It is suddenly going from a being asked to leave situation to a leaving in handcuffs and losing your gun rights situation.

ESPECIALLY since this is a red herring... What is the difference between the "no guns" sign on the door of this mall vs any other Simon mall? (without a school, assuming the GFZ basis is correct)

How will they differentiate a "no, really, this really is a legally prohibited space, not just us exercising our private property rights" sign from a run of the mill "no guns" sign. Since this isnt OH with enforceable signage, it could get VERY dicey VERY fast.

Assuming its true, it will be an interesting test case.

And speaking of the Childrens Museum, do we know of any prosecutions under the GFZ prohibition? Any instances of security being cool and simply asking the armed parent to leave because its a GFZ?

 

[eldirector]

Next NRA convention, we all should make a HUGE deal of this. Absolutely NO NRA attendees should set foot on a Simon property, armed or not. Don't use the garages, don't frequent the attached restaurants and businesses, and certainly don't enter the Mall proper.

a) we don't need any unintentional felons
b) Simon doesn't deserve our $$$ anyway
c) unless this is exceptionally visible, the law will not change

 

[Cameramonkey]

Next NRA convention, we all should make a HUGE deal of this. Absolutely NO NRA attendees should set foot on a Simon property, armed or not. Don't use the garages, don't frequent the attached restaurants and businesses, and certainly don't enter the Mall proper.

a) we don't need any unintentional felons
b) Simon doesn't deserve our $$$ anyway
c) unless this is exceptionally visible, the law will not change

And they need to circulate their version of "no guns, no money" cards/flyers for the members to inundate the businesses with. (or at least a petition of "Here is a list of all of the customers you lost, Simon.")