CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: Public displays of religiosity

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  • T.Lex

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    Hmmm... this caught my eye. It is a bit of a new topic - with some overlap on previous topics, particularly in the Christianity thread.

    Victor Espinoza, American Pharoah?s Jockey, Takes Spiritual Journey « CBS New York

    Espinoza [jockey for American Pharoah, trying for the first triple crown in a bazillion years] visited the grave site of Grand Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Schneerson, considered one of the most influential Jewish leaders of the 20th century.

    Hundreds of thousands come to the cemetery every year 24/7 to pray.
    Espinoza opened a prayer book, recited psalms, wrote out his own message and added his to a mountain of prayers at the sacred site.

    ...
    Espinoza is not Jewish, but spiritual. He said after receiving a blessing from a rabbi at the Preakness last month, he scheduled the detour from his regular race prep for the Belmont.
    ...
    “He believes with God’s help and the rebbe interceding for him that’s he’s going to be very successful and very safe,” said Mike Weitz, Espinoza’s publicist.
    Prayers for a pharaoh may be a first at the site, but worshipers welcomed Espinoza.
    “Jewish, not Jewish — no matter what your faith is, it’s always good to turn to God,” one man said.
    American Pharoah’s owners also answer to a higher authority. The Zayats were raised in Egypt as observant Jews. On race day, which is the Sabbath, the family will abstain from driving in observance and will camp overnight in luxury RVs on Belmont’s grounds.

    The point that is most interesting to me is the public displays of devotion. I think its great that this guy's personal religious devotion is getting covered - I think that helps all of the devout more comfortable with publicly displaying such things. I see professional athletes sometimes give thanks to God for a good performance. Sometimes those proclamations seem... disingenuous. But, other times, the seem very sincere.

    Personally, as a family, we say grace before meals in restaurants, although it is somewhat discrete. If I'm in a business lunch, I'll discretely make the Sign of the Cross before eating. I think there's a certain line to walk between being personally devout and publicly self-aggrandizing.

    In that article, I also appreciate the workmanlike statement - "t's always good to turn to God." :) Sometimes the most simple theologies are the most compelling.
     

    indiucky

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    And now for something completely different...(cue Monty Python music) here is Nicki Minaj talking about her demon and how he helps her perform....Kind of freaky to those of us who believe in such things as Demonic Possession.....

    [video=youtube;93XhVvGKbKg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93XhVvGKbKg[/video]
     

    deal me in

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    I don't have any problem with people discretely saying grace in a public restaurant, but when athletes credit God/Jesus for their success, I do roll my eyes. So arrogant and narcissistic.
     

    Denny347

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    I don't have any problem with people discretely saying grace in a public restaurant, but when athletes credit God/Jesus for their success, I do roll my eyes. So arrogant and narcissistic.
    What, you mean God was concerned that the athlete do well in the game? Too bad for the other athletes. I work with people who say Grace before lunch. Many have St Christopher medals on them or in their cars. Lots wear crosses. No problem with any of it nor have I ever witnessed someone who took issue with it.
     

    deal me in

    Sharpshooter
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    Don't be so hard on yourself....Some people credit something bigger than themselves for success and just because you do not does not make you "arrogant and narcissistic"...It just means you have a different set of values than they do....

    If you credit success to a greater power, then that power is responsible for failure as well.
     

    mrjarrell

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    And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.
    Matthew 6:5
    But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
    Matthew 6:6

    Seems fairly cut a dried.
     

    indiucky

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    What, you mean God was concerned that the athlete do well in the game? Too bad for the other athletes. I work with people who say Grace before lunch. Many have St Christopher medals on them or in their cars. Lots wear crosses. No problem with any of it nor have I ever witnessed someone who took issue with it.

    I never really thought that they were crediting God with the touchdown, score, home run or what have you...I just figured they were happy in life, happy they did well, and in the moment of doing well offer up some thanks to their Creator......I know many folks who offer a prayer of thanks after taking any game animal...I know I do..Not because I thought God helped my shot...I look at it as just a moment in time where I feel Blessed and to offer Grace and say thanks to my Creator for this moment in time....


    It's a bit rare now days but many folks thank God after winning an Oscar....And judging by what Hollyweird puts out these days I can't imagine the Creator being on the Oscar committee.....:)
     

    indiucky

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    Matthew 6:5
    Matthew 6:6

    Seems fairly cut a dried.

    Very true...But we are talking about a simple prayer of thanks, sort of a "nod to God"......Not praying real loud in the Synagogue or Church to impress your neighbors about how Holy you are...I look at folks giving the 'nod to God" the same way I look at it when my Argentine bride crosses herself every time we drive/walk/ride bike whatever past a Catholic Church....It's just an acknowledgement or a "nod".....

    Now this is just MY opinion....It no way do I think or presume I am right....But nice catch mrjarrell....:yesway:
     

    indiucky

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    just want to know how God determines the ups and downs. Seems rather arbitrary.

    Life IS arbitrary...WE determine whether something is an "up or down"....For instance, getting beat by a whip is considered a BAD thing among most folks...However, there is another group of folks that think getting beat by a whip is a GOOD thing...And they will pay someone to do it and get their jollies from it....

    That person may thank God for the hot, tall, East Bloc chick in the thigh high boots who needed some extra cash.....And the question you ask has been debated by Philosophers and Theologians for 2,000 plus years...I.E. If God is so good why do bad things happen????

    I think Clint Eastwood summed it up pretty well in "The Unforgiven"......

    Little Bill lays on the floor dying of his wound and he looks up at Clint's character and says, "I was building a house...I don't deserve this.." Clint cocked back the hammer on his Schofield and points it down at Little Bill and says, "Deserving has nothing to do with it..." And pulls the trigger....

    So many folks give thanks for the good and pray for strength during the bad....And thank you for having a civil discussion with me about a topic that sometimes brings out the worse in people...Kudos to both you and mrjarrell......
     

    deal me in

    Sharpshooter
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    Life IS arbitrary...WE determine whether something is an "up or down"....For instance, getting beat by a whip is considered a BAD thing among most folks...However, there is another group of folks that think getting beat by a whip is a GOOD thing...And they will pay someone to do it and get their jollies from it....

    That person may thank God for the hot, tall, East Bloc chick in the thigh high boots who needed some extra cash.....And the question you ask has been debated by Philosophers and Theologians for 2,000 plus years...I.E. If God is so good why do bad things happen????

    I think Clint Eastwood summed it up pretty well in "The Unforgiven"......

    Little Bill lays on the floor dying of his wound and he looks up at Clint's character and says, "I was building a house...I don't deserve this.." Clint cocked back the hammer on his Schofield and points it down at Little Bill and says, "Deserving has nothing to do with it..." And pulls the trigger....

    So many folks give thanks for the good and pray for strength during the bad....And thank you for having a civil discussion with me about a topic that sometimes brings out the worse in people...Kudos to both you and mrjarrell......

    Thanks for the civil discussion as well. I think good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people and God has nothing to do with it. If I was religious, my views would be the same. From a religious stand point it seems much easier to explain success/suffering that way than to lose the impotent/evil debate.
     

    indiucky

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    Thanks for the civil discussion as well. I think good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people and God has nothing to do with it. If I was religious, my views would be the same.


    For not being Religious you sure enough managed to get a pretty mean Calvinist streak in you....:) I believe the same as you pretty much...I do think God has something to do with it, but not by giving people success...Just allowing them this time on earth to have success.......

    I think of the universe as a giant clock winding down and we are just a small part of that universe plugging along with the hands we are dealt...We pray for strength in the bad times and give prayers of thanks for the good times...I always like it when people are grateful and being as how I believe we were created in God's image I always figured He liked to hear a heartfelt "Thank You" as much as those He created....

    Now how many Religious folks do you figure say prayers because saying "Thank You" is just good manners????:)
     
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    IndyDave1776

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    Uh-oh...you're in hell!

    Wait...

    If you're here....and I'm here....Does that mean I'm in hell too? :scratch:

    If the fire of Hell burns you but no one feels it, is it really fire? (You know, sort of like if a tree falls with no one in the woods to hear it, does it make a sound?)
     
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