45 auto double charge results

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  • praff

    Sharpshooter
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    Sep 26, 2009
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    Just wanted to pass along an experience I had over the weekend. This is long so I appologize in advance, but wanna include all the facts and pics. Also, I believe that this was due to a double charge (but not 100% sure) as I am not arrogant enough to believe that I cant make a mistake while reloading. This is being passed along in the hopes that it can prevent a new or experienced reloader from making the same mistake.

    I took the USPA course that Coach offered at MCFG and was in the afternoon session on saturday....great experience by the way. I was shooting my Les Baer Premier 1911 that prolly had about 800 rounds through it previously. Fired 7 or so shots from first shooting position, transitioned, changed mags. Then fired about 3 (maybe 4) from position 2 and on the next shot got a surprise. I knew something wasn't right, but a little stunned and not sure what had happened. Stopped immediately and kept muzzle pointed downrange. Debris had smacked me in the face and my hand felt like it had been hit by a hammer. Only half of each side of the grip was left on the pistol (they were cracked down the middle and lying on the ground). The magazine had blown out the bottom of the pistol as well. The unfired rounds that were found had the bullet pushed back deeply into the brass from the force of the charge. One unfired round was lodged in bottom of the mag and the spring and floorplate were never found. The fired case was stuck in the chamber and was removed with a brass rod. I had powder residue (not really burnt but pretty severe marks) on both hands that corresponded to every crevice that gas could escape from the pistol. Including a nice rectangular mark from powder that escaped from between the thumb safety and frame. It took me a few minutes to gather myself and thoughts to make sure I wasnt bleeding anywhere. Very greatful to report that there was no serious injury.

    The pistol seems to be OK. No glaring cracks in the frame or slide. Function check of the trigger group is good. Dimensions on the barrel and chamber are in spec. I tried to capture a pic of the frame (didnt do a very good job) but it appears as though there is a brass layer almost fused to the frame rail in one spot where the case rupture occurred. Surface isn't raised at all and a gentle scrape with a dental pic doesn't remove any material. Hard to describe, but almost like the surface was plated in a way. I am going to have a smith take a look at the pistol to ensure it is ok prior to shooting again, but I'm not too worried.

    Specifics on my reloading and load: I have been reloading pistol rounds for the past 5 or six years without incident. I am very careful with my reloads, but it seems as though one rogue round got past me. I reload on a dillon 550 (resize, powder drop, seat, crimp are the stations and it is a manually indexing press). I was shooting 200gr lead round nose bullets over 5.3gr Titegroup. If you have ever loaded rounds with titegroup, you are very well aware that it is plausible to have a double charge fit in a 45 case. My theory on how this happened was that I made a mistake and double threw a charge when I had a piece of small primer brass sneak in but this is just a theory.

    Anyway, maybe my mistake can help someone else prevent an injury and learn a little in the process. Pics are below and ask any and all questions.

    That pistol needed a new set of grips anyway....:rockwoot:Also proud to say that even after the accident, I was able to complete the course with my M&P that I had brought thanks to a kind soul that let me buy a box of 9mm. (not sure who that was, but I owe him some rep at least)

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    T4rdV4rk

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    May 1, 2012
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    I can't believe the amount of setback you got from that. Glad you were not injured and thanks for the post. I'm glad to see that it doesn't appear to damage the firearm.
     

    cmamath13

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    Mar 3, 2013
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    Greenwood
    That would have scared the crap out of me. Be thankful, because based on the pictures the good Lord was watching over you last weekend. I am subscribed to this thread. Take care and please keep us posted.
     

    gopurdue02

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    Oct 2, 2011
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    Appreciate you taking the time to share your story and should serve as reminder to all the risk's in reloading.

    However, it is my next comment that I am sure that will get folks riled up :) Specifically, the Dillon 550 is a double charge magnet. Every time I read a story of a blown up pistol 100% of the time the reloader was using a Dillon 550. I've never heard of this happing with a Dillon 650/1050 or a Hornady LNL. I attribute it to the lack of an auto-index feature on the 550. The 550 put the onus on the user to make sure he index's the shell-plate vs a mechanical process. That is just my two cents of course.
     

    praff

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    Sep 26, 2009
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    Thanks guys.....definitely feel blessed to have come out of this unscathed. I do think someone was watching over me that day (besides Coach :):).

    I agree that any manual indexing press (not just the dillon 550) takes a little more patience and care to not get a double charge. I think the ideal press would be a dillon 5 station manual indexing press. That would allow the user to have a separate seat/crimp operation and still allow the use of a powder check system in station 3.
     

    Killion

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    Apr 11, 2013
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    Indianapolis/warren
    I double charged a .45 case the other day! I was using my dillon 650. I had a 40 case inside of a .45 case I noticed it when I couldn't pull the handle all the way down! I lowered the shell plate just enough to remove the 40 case. Then i resumed the downstroke with the. Handle. evidentally the shellplate went high enough to throw powder even though there was a .40 case inside the .45 case. When i countinued the cycle after removing case i threw powder again! Luckily I have a powder safety check and the alarm sounded! Those things are handy! 12.6 grains of power pistol would have been kinda sporty!
     

    iChokePeople

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    Feb 11, 2011
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    I double charged a .45 case the other day! I was using my dillon 650. I had a 40 case inside of a .45 case I noticed it when I couldn't pull the handle all the way down! I lowered the shell plate just enough to remove the 40 case. Then i resumed the downstroke with the. Handle. evidentally the shellplate went high enough to throw powder even though there was a .40 case inside the .45 case. When i countinued the cycle after removing case i threw powder again! Luckily I have a powder safety check and the alarm sounded! Those things are handy! 12.6 grains of power pistol would have been kinda sporty!

    I still don't understand how you ended up with a double. If you dropped on the first semi-stroke into the .40, removed the .40 (presumably with the powder intact) and finished the stroke, you got a "second" charge, but that should be the only one left...? The only way that comes to mind is that the .40 was unprimed (which also begs the question, "how would you not feel that on die #1?") and the powder you dropped into the .40 case all/mostly slipped out through the .40 casing's primer hole into the .45 casing, which WAS primed and held it. Even that scenario involves somehow pulling the .40 case out while the .45 stays in the plate, vs. taking the .45 out of the plate to deal with the issue.

    I know, a slight veer on the topic, but still in the interest of helping people avoid a similar fate.

    OP, thanks for posting it.
     

    bwframe

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    Feb 11, 2008
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    I still don't understand how you ended up with a double. If you dropped on the first semi-stroke into the .40, removed the .40 (presumably with the powder intact) and finished the stroke, you got a "second" charge, but that should be the only one left...? The only way that comes to mind is that the .40 was unprimed (which also begs the question, "how would you not feel that on die #1?") and the powder you dropped into the .40 case all/mostly slipped out through the .40 casing's primer hole into the .45 casing, which WAS primed and held it. Even that scenario involves somehow pulling the .40 case out while the .45 stays in the plate, vs. taking the .45 out of the plate to deal with the issue.
    ^^^ Agreed, this doesn't seem correct. One reason the 650 is such a drastic advancement over the 550 is the auto advance that prevents double charging.

    On a side note, Strongcrow and I were there when this kaboom happened. After determining that praff was OK, Strongcrow was schooling me sternly on paying attention while reloading. He suggested; standing up over sitting, no TV/music/noise, seeing the process EVERY load, etc.
     
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    praff

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    I may be wrong but I think what he is saying is that in station 1 (size/deprime) he had a 40 case inside the 45. That would allow station 2 to drop a charge into a normal case......:dunno:
     

    iChokePeople

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    I may be wrong but I think what he is saying is that in station 1 (size/deprime) he had a 40 case inside the 45. That would allow station 2 to drop a charge into a normal case......:dunno:

    No, it wouldn't. Or not any way I can think of. I run a 650, can't see how it could happen as described without some serious weirdness.

    ETA: I'm a total n00b reloader, maybe it's my lack of experience that keeps me from seeing it. Genuinely interested in understanding how this could happen on a 650 so I don't do it. I can think of two ways to get a double on my 650. If there are others, I'd like to be aware of them.
     
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    netsecurity

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    Oct 14, 2011
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    Wow, so glad you are okay! As a new reloader I have to take pause and think carefully about how things like this can happen.

    Could this scenario be possible instead of an overcharge?
    Maybe the case was too long, perhaps due to being reloaded too many times, and therefore the shell was not enclosed completely by the chamber upon firing. The shell being ripped at the base should be consistent with that, although probably also consistent with a plain overcharge. I'm guessing that if this happened it would release gas into the face and hands as you described, but not do as much damage as a double load. All guesses here, but what do you think? [If the case being to long can do this much damage, then I might start measuring every one...]

    It could just be a really solid gun, but I expected to see a mangled slide. Maybe the design of the gun, or raw luck, saved the frame/slide by blowing out the weaker magazine and grips. Those grips blowing off certainly reduced pressure rapidly.

    PS - I set the primed case on my digital scales, pressed "Tare", threw the powder, and measured again, for all of my first 700 rounds. It was a lot of work, but even if I get a more consistent powder in the future, I am considering keeping this process in place due to the tight tolerances of handgun powder charges. Is this being too paranoid?
     
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    ghitch75

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    No, it wouldn't. Or not any way I can think of. I run a 650, can't see how it could happen as described without some serious weirdness.

    ETA: I'm a total n00b reloader, maybe it's my lack of experience that keeps me from seeing it. Genuinely interested in understanding how this could happen on a 650 so I don't do it. I can think of two ways to get a double on my 650. If there are others, I'd like to be aware of them.

    get a powder check.....i have one on my 650....never have had a squib or over charge...

    Dillon Powder Check: Reloading Machine Accessories
     

    iChokePeople

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    Feb 11, 2011
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    get a powder check.....i have one on my 650....never have had a squib or over charge...

    Dillon Powder Check: Reloading Machine Accessories

    I run powder checks, but still interested in learning about potential downfalls in my reloading. I hope to NEVER hear that beep outside when I'm testing it to make sure it works and the rod is twisted to the correct length. Definitely good advice, though.
     

    indygunguy

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    Dec 12, 2010
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    get a powder check.....i have one on my 650....never have had a squib or over charge...

    Dillon Powder Check: Reloading Machine Accessories

    Dillon says this works for the 650 and 1050... do we know if it works with the 550? I seat and crimp in one station so I have a station on my 550 open for this... if it will work.



    And OP - thanks for posting this story. I'd rep you, but it says I must spread it around first.
     

    Grelber

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    Jan 7, 2012
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    Just rep'd the o.p..
    For the post and to show gratitude from the rest of us for not fouling his britches.

    Had a double on a Dillon square deal many years ago (I think it was a double).
    Seems like weird things are most likely to happen when you are dealing with a interruption issue (primer feed not working 100%, small primer 45, etc.).
    I convinced myself that I needed to stand up and look at every single powder charge and that manual indexing made things simpler and more reliable, so I went to a 550.

    I'm not sure about the manual indexing being safer, there are a couple good points made in favor of the 650 and I think the day might come when you can't even buy a press without a powder check station. I did catch one big overcharge from standing up and looking, a screw had backed out of the powder measure (it is the newer style powder measure).

    On the 550 booms vs 650 booms thing, I'm thinking that there might be some result bias because new folks tend to go 550 and there are just a lot more 550's in use. That may be wrong however.
     
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