Yet Another Enemy Emerges

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    10,007
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    We have to remind anti gun rights people that the NRA is made up of law abiding, tax paying CITIZENS who have the right to an opinion. Church membership in America is made up of law abiding, taxpaying CITIZENS who have a right to an opinion. The PITA organization is made up of law abiding, tax paying CITIZENS who have a right to an opinion. See a pattern? It doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees, a Citizen has a right to an opinion.

    To clarify a position that makes people upset, thinking there is something unfair going on, churches in America are the same as any other non profit. Anyone who is on payroll at a church pays the same state, local, Federal, Medicare as any other American. They usually pay double social security because the government looks at it as a contractor job and we are forced to pay the employer 1/2 also. The only tax related perk that a Pastor is eligible for is provided housing in the form of a parsonage or a housing allowance if the church does not own one. Groundskeepers, Park rangers, resident heathcare and similar workers often have the same deal. My housing allowance was $800 per month. My salary was only what was left after all the operating bills were paid. The congregation was mostly lower income, with single mothers and old retirees. Want to guess what my payroll looked like after the insurance, water, power, telephone bills and the money spent on the benevolent programs? If I didn't teach part time at the local college, I would have been eating dandilion greens out of the lawn.
     

    Herstal

    Plinker
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 22, 2012
    65
    18
    Indianapolis
    Just remember.... Religion is a billion dollar a year business.. most tax free. I'm riding the gray line here on INGO so I'll stop there..

    I don't understand why churches don't have to comply with the same not-for-profit legislation that other organizations follow. It doesn't seem like it'd be that complex? Perhaps they already are, there's just a special category for them which is more lax? I know most churches are doing alright, but then you see people like Creflo Dollar and you can't help but to think more should be done
     

    Herstal

    Plinker
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 22, 2012
    65
    18
    Indianapolis
    To clarify a position that makes people upset, thinking there is something unfair going on, churches in America are the same as any other non profit. Anyone who is on payroll at a church pays the same state, local, Federal, Medicare as any other American. They usually pay double social security because the government looks at it as a contractor job and we are forced to pay the employer 1/2 also. The only tax related perk that a Pastor is eligible for is provided housing in the form of a parsonage or a housing allowance if the church does not own one. Groundskeepers, Park rangers, resident heathcare and similar workers often have the same deal. My housing allowance was $800 per month. My salary was only what was left after all the operating bills were paid. The congregation was mostly lower income, with single mothers and old retirees. Want to guess what my payroll looked like after the insurance, water, power, telephone bills and the money spent on the benevolent programs? If I didn't teach part time at the local college, I would have been eating dandilion greens out of the lawn.

    So does the church have to comply with the same laws as other Not For Profits, e.g. 501(c) or is there a special designation for them? How do those so called "prosperity ministries" dodge taxes like they do -- when they're obviously for the benefit of the "preacher" in charge?
     

    IndyDave1776

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 12, 2012
    27,286
    113
    I seem to recall that the revolution included among its stalwart participants numerous preachers who obviously did not support 'gun control' else they would have turned their arms in to the British and gone home. We still have plenty of such people, it is just that many of the established denominations have turned away from everything they once were in favor of a left-leaning false gospel of 'social justice' which has little to nothing to do with the scripture they purport to follow.
     

    DC47374

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Aug 13, 2012
    374
    18
    Richmond, IN
    All I would say of this is that it's an Episcopal Church. They are not numerous in numbers and have very little "real" political influence. Had it been the Catholic Church, I would be concerned. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see all churches throwing their hat into the ring on gun control.
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    10,007
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    Herstal,
    I am not inside the books of every place that calls itself a church. Some wicked people like to call themselves a church, for example the Westboro Baptist Church lunatics that call themselves a church to hide behind their profit making hate agenda. I am sure things will catch up with people like that.

    If any organization is fraudulent and getting away with it, that means that 100's of millions of your taxpayer dollars, funding various tax agency jobs are being fraudlently collected because they are not doing their job. Texas has several "Mega churches" that have huge properties and many people on payroll, mostly because they have memberships in the thousands, even 10's of thousands. I do know for a fact that the IRS watches them and inspects their books continually.

    I am sure there will always be some who work the system dishonorably and illegally. I do not think they last too long. In our belief system, there is still a day of judgement even if an individual gets away with it all his life. And remember, the whole question is about paying additional taxes to the government from donations that were freely given by citizens WHO ALREADY PAID taxes on the money. No individual is getting by without taxes. I have been required to set up meetinngs with the accountant, the bankers and the tax examiners. All of which make their living being sure everything was proper. All the checks and balances for proper accountability worked fine in every case where I have been involved. You always worry during an audit if you forgot a line item or didn't understand how to properly enter something. That is why we pay tax accountants and accept their advice.

    The "three G's", the Gold, the Girls, and the Glory. A minister will always be ok if he keeps his hands off of all three. Maybe our government leaders should give that rule a try.
     
    Last edited:
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jul 3, 2008
    3,639
    63
    central indiana
    the first "bill of rights" in the English civil war came about in part to the persecution and disarming of one religious group over another.. the first mention of right to arms specifies protestant men.
     
    Top Bottom