Would it have been justified to draw a firearm.

[DocGlock86]

IANAL therefore I don’t know if it would be justified or what the legal ramifications would be.

However this is my thinking if I was put in your shoes…
Whether I’m an athletic runner or a person in a wheel chair or whether I have a loved one in the path of the oncoming car that is an athletic runner or in a wheelchair, my primary concern is safety for myself or loved one. If you decide that just drawing or drawing and shooting is the course of action you take, will that remove the safety issue of getting you or your loved one run over? More than likely not… (Unless you buy into the Hollywood scenes where the person stands in front of a moving vehicle, pulls out a gun, and the driver always slams their brakes stopping the car a few inches from them) there’s a chance the person in the van is going to try and now remove the threat in front of him (person with a gun) by running them over. Or say if you were able to pull that perfect shot off and actually nail the driver dead on, is that going magically stop the van? Again more than likely not… His foot is already on the accelerator meaning when he goes down he probably won’t take his foot off of it. This will cause him to continue to accelerate towards you or your loved one.

I’m also not a scientist but let’s dive into some deep thinking. The OP said he was approx 20ft in front of the van. Disregarding acceleration because that is mathematics beyond me, let’s say the van was able to get to just 5mph that equals to 7.33333 feet per second (Google.com). The van would travel 20ft in 2.73 seconds. (Hopefully my math is correct LOL)

So in 3ish seconds I have to either decide to draw and HOPE that stops the van or just do my level best to get myself or my loved one the heck out of dangers way. I’m going to go with option 2 and then if I understand my laws right at that point you can’t really do much in regards to pulling my gun because life is no longer in immediate danger.

All in all is it justified? I’ll leave that to the INGO lawyers to answer. Is it the smart choice? I’m going with no.

 

[JettaKnight]

And so you know i am still waiting on my permit and was not in possession of a firearm. This has just been in my head every since it happened.
Did I feel my life was in danger yes until I got that last step out of the way. What if I wasn't able to take those steps. Say I was an elderly man with a permit to have a firearm and couldn't have taken those steps.

Drawing and shooting a van driving straight at you won't save your life - except in the movies.

 

[10-32]

The other day I was walking into the Lowes hardware store. As I was walking across the the drive between the parking spots and the front of the store there was a van sitting there running. As I got into the middle of the drive a man came running out of the store and dove into the passenger side back of van yelling at the driver to GO GO GO MOTHER BLEEPER GO.

I knew what was going on right away. But I hadn't relized where I was standing. The driver started yelling at the guy that jumped in saying," he wasnt going to go to jail" but then punched the gas with me standing about 20 ft infront of the van. i was able to get out of the way but only because I took a couple giant steps to get out of the way.

Now with that story told. the way I am thinking is. i was able to take the giant steps to get out of the way but barely. So one could say sence I was able to get out of the way that drawing the firearm would have been a no no.

An argument could also been made that they were comitting a crime and running me over with a van in that crime makes the van a deadly weapon and drawing would have been an adequate responce.

And so you know i am still waiting on my permit and was not in possesion of a firearm. This has just been in my head every since it happened.
Did I feel my life was in danger yes until I got that last step out of the way. What if I wasnt able to take those steps. Say I was an elderly man with a permit to have a firearm and couldnt have taken those steps.



After talking to the lady at the counter I found out I was almost ran over so the guy could steal 2 cordless drills.

Where did this happen? The van wasn't missing the outside mirror on the driver's side was it?

 

[AD Marc]

In the paramedic world, we like to say "basic life support before advanced life support." Simply, that means you should attempt to fix the problem using the least invasive procedures first. For instance, if you can open someone's airway with simple positioning, you probably don't need to drop a plastic tube down his throat. If you can slow their heartrate by having them bear down, you probably don't need to pump them full of drugs or shock them to stop and restart their heart. The reason we operate this way is because more advanced interventions carry a higher risk of complications.

I apply the same philosophy to self-defense. BLS before ALS. Did bolting out of the way accomplish the goal of protecting your life? Yes. Could blasting the dude through his windshield have worked? Perhaps, but such advanced measures carry with them a significantly higher risk of complications. You now have rounds flying through a crowded parking lot, each one of which you are liable for. Additionally, you now potentially have an out of control van speeding through the parking lot with an injured or dead driver--a situation that you caused.

Better to be a good witness.

 

[Georgia A Hines]

I can see where you could have these thoughts after the fact. But that was after you were safe. I can see a handicap person reaching for his weapon, first thought, because that weapon is his safety! No jumping or grappling for anything to help him. The weapon is his help. Would be an automatic thing for him. Still may have been run over as that is a close call, even for a person who is able to move. .. I can just see you, jump, roll , pull gun, shoot. OOPs .. car is gone .. too late.

 

[AD Marc]

I can see where you could have these thoughts after the fact. But that was after you were safe. I can see a handicap person reaching for his weapon, first thought, because that weapon is his safety! No jumping or grappling for anything to help him. The weapon is his help. Would be an automatic thing for him. Still may have been run over as that is a close call, even for a person who is able to move. .. I can just see you, jump, roll , pull gun, shoot. OOPs .. car is gone .. too late.

Even in that scenario, It's probably a safe bet that the driver of the van isn't intending to murder a disabled person to steal a power drill and will likely attempt to avoid striking him. Shooting at the driver is likely to change that, whether he intentionally mows you down because you're taking pot shots at him, or is simply disabled and unable to control the vehicle.

Shooting the driver puts a lot of people at risk...unnecessarily so.

 

[rjc2rjc]

Where did this happen? The van wasn't missing the outside mirror on the driver's side was it?

It was I believe. It was in greenwood. It was a tan colored van.

 

[10-32]

It was I believe. It was in greenwood. It was a tan colored van.

It wasn't the same one that hit me a a few months back in Avon then. Group of three guys steeling the same thing. Would of been nice if it was them.

 

[Spike_351]

Some how I dont beleive your EDC would have stopped the van, a polar bear.....maybe, but not a van. Dont shoot, evem police officers end up in trouble over certian situations like this.

 

[figley]

You're still waiting on your LTCH, so this is a good time to be thinking these things over.

Don't go around looking for excuses to draw. When you have to draw and use a firearm, there is a good chance that the fallout will cost you everything of monetary value. Ergo, only employ a firearm when you find yourself in a circumstance you are willing to give up everything to change.

 

[jfryan]

No. As a LEO I would not have been justified either. Use of Force Continuum says no.

Ok.. just for fun,

If a LEO wouldn't be justified in this situation, how does anyone think J Q Public would stand a chance in court?

 

[Cat-Herder]

you probably would've been better served to step out of the way and write down the guy's license plate number. but y'know....

 

[Mark 1911]

I would not take a chance. You're life was not in imminent danger, they were not attacking you. If you had drawn, it may have turned into much more of a legal headache for you than it was worth. Dial 911 and leave that one for the cops. On the other hand, it would have been your word against theirs. "They tried to run me down officer". Maybe you're a better liar than I am.

 

[AlwaysVigilant]

Lots of good perspective here. My suggestion for a first action in a fight of any kind is MOVE. After all the first rule is don't get shot (or in this case run over)! Your instinct kept you from getting hit and saved your bacon.

If dude comes around for another pass...light him up.

 

[po7g]

In my firearms training for work we are told to never shoot at a moving vehicle. Why this is because lets say you did shoot at the driver and killed them, now if the van hits a innocent person you are the one that disabled the driver who was controlling the van. best thing you could have done was get the plate number and give it to the police. or get a good look at the guys.

 

[GuyRelford]

You should really consider taking my Comprehensive Indiana Gun Law course. We discuss the justifiable use of deadly force under Indiana law in great detail. Check it out at www.shop.tactical-firearms.com.

Guy

 

[Mark 1911]

You should really consider taking my Comprehensive Indiana Gun Law course. We discuss the justifiable use of deadly force under Indiana law in great detail. Check it out at www.shop.tactical-firearms.com.

Guy

Guy, is this a one-day course? I live in NWI, but would come down to Indy for a Saturday.

 

[Sgtusmc]

I've been duped before in thinking some guys were in the process of committing a crime. It turned out they were just older teens pretending, baiting people for the attention because they thought it was funny.

Dumb? Of course, but we must be the wiser and not jump to the use of deadly force just because we think something is going down. Different circumstances though if a firearm is being pointed at you.