Woman calls 911, assaulted by police

[public servant]

As soon as they turn up the events on tape before she was put in the car, I'll believe the tape. Until then, I think I'll lean toward her sworn statement because the absence of a badge on her person doesn't equal the absence of the ability to tell the truth. Especially, since the cops wouldn't even have been there if not for her call.

Fixed that.

Why on earth would you think it's a joke for someone to say "your life/body is your ultimate property"?

Yes...you fixed it...to match YOUR point of view. Sorry...again...no rule violations in the video. You're confusing the rules. She is not being "strip searched" so that rule does not apply. She is fighting. Call any correctional facility in Indiana and ask them their rules involving removing the clothing from a resisting arrestee. I'm sorry you and so many others feel that just because he's a cop he's the one lying. Do you really wonder why LEO's sometimes have such crappy attitudes? They are behind the 8 ball from the get-go.

And let me ask you....are you willing to pay the millions it would have cost the county for her death? You think hubby is pi$$ed now. How mad do you think he would be if she's allowed to off herself in jail? Of course you also would be yelling about that. "OMG....they let that poor lady die". Come on...don't be so niave. Let her kill herself on her own dime....not mine. They have a duty to protect her from herself....legally.

 

[JetGirl]

If you feel you are being wrongly arrested, cooperate, do not resist

...And hope that there's enough toilet paper on the roll to cover your nudity while you sit for 6 hours in a holding cell with God knows who walking all about.

This is the same advice that I gave to my kids and friends.

If you have a daughter, I hope you gave her a few spare pocket squares.
You know, just in case.

 

[JetGirl]

Do you really wonder why LEO's sometimes have such crappy attitudes?

Nope. I don't wonder at all.

Of course you also would be yelling about that.

Don't bet the farm on that one.

They have a duty to protect her from herself....legally.

Why would they? They don't have a duty to protect her from anyone else! So says the Supreme Court.
But whatever...
Bottom line; you have your opinion and I have mine and never the twain shall meet.
You have a really good weekend.

 

[public servant]

Seriously? ....SERIOUSLY??

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark here and say you're one of those people that, when talking about car/home/person searches, says "If you don't have anything to hide, why would you not consent to a search? If you don't consent, you must be involved with a criminal act of some sort."
No?

Within the limits of the law you can search anything I have. Same rules I follow....within the limits of the law. I have an ugly job. I deal with what you can't or don't want to. You should come hang out sometime. It might open your eyes beyond those liberal colored glasses.

 

[dburkhead]

Criminals often lie.

Once, I was in the county lockup (I told that tale elsewhere on this forum). There was an officer/deputy/guard (never worried about the exact position) who took me back to what I think of as the second holding cell (one inside the door, after being run through the metal detector and fingerprinted, then one farther back where I spoke to somebody through a glass window who explained the charges against me). While I was waiting, the individual brought back another group. It happened that one of the individuals with him was a private investigator (so identified by conversation I heard between the guard and the PI). Now, I don't know what the PI was doing there, but the guard told him to go back to the front.

Seconds later, another of the guards who was up front comes hurrying back, chivvying the PI along in a pain compliance come-along hold--apparently sure that he's got a major jailbreak on his hands. The PI attempts to explain to this guard that the other one told him to go back up front. The second guard asks the first if he told the PI to go up front. The first guard, with a completely straight face, said "No."

I sat there and watched this guard lie through his teeth for no other reason that I could see but to save himself some embarrassment. And then he let the PI--who wasn't under arrest--sit there in the lockup for I don't know how long. He was still there when my name was called to go to one of the upstairs cells.

So police officers lie too for their own advantage.

This, by the way, is about par for my experiences with law enforcement officers. (The other tale has a nice addenda in the trials of my getting out of jail.) I try really hard to consider these experiences atypical and remember that most law officers are conscientious and dedicated people who are trying to help, that Paul Ragonese is probably closer to the average than the folk I've had the misfortune of dealing with.

 

[4sarge]

...And hope that there's enough toilet paper on the roll to cover your nudity while you sit for 6 hours in a holding cell with God knows who walking all about.

If you have a daughter, I hope you gave her a few spare pocket squares.
You know, just in case.

Actually, I have 3 daughters and their personal safety and welfare are of my utmost concern but keeping them from being injured is more important to me than a pi**ing contest of who is wrong or right. If arrested, the trial outcome is what is important.

 

[cox7215]

Unreal!!!! Wow, she is going to get PAID!!!!

 

[public servant]

If I place a 911 call and I get myself slammed against a vehicle and told to quit crying about a dead sister, I'm not going to be going along for the ********. I will be resisting. Just seems too convenient that the dashboard cam was off.
So it's ok to be charged with disorderly conduct and resisting law enforcement if the resistance was caused by a LEO misunderstanding the 911 call and confusing the perp with the victim? I say BS.
The rules they violated was having members of the opposite sex in during her being disrobed. Just because another rule states she must be, is NOT authorization to break another. How about placing a person to watch her?

Unlike because he is a police officer it CANNOT POSSIBLY be his fault?

And when you show me evidence of wrong doing by the police....I'll admit he was at fault. You're believing the account of a ticked off husband, a person convicted of the crime she was arrested for and a lawyer. Until then, my money is on the po-po. I'm funny that way.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Until then, my money is on the po-po. I'm funny that way.

I would have never guessed that.

 

[public servant]

So police officers lie too for their own advantage.

Yeah....they are crooked ba$tard$. They rank right behind the crooks in jail in my book. And you know....they are ALL just alike....crooked cops.

 

[public servant]

I would have never guessed that.

Yeah....it's a shame some of these law abiding citizens dont feel that way.

 

[public servant]

oh well...you can lead the sheeple to water....but making them believe it's water and not kool-aid is another story.

 

[dburkhead]

Yeah....they are crooked ba$. They rank right behind the crooks in jail in my book. And you know....they are ALL just alike....crooked cops.

I didn't say that. In fact, I specifically said not that.

 

[Mr.Hoppes]

IF she was suicidal why wasn't she transfered to a mental health facility for maximum pretection. Removing clothes won't stop a suicidal person only slow them down slightly.
Removing clothes in this incident was a statement, not a response to suicidal utterance. If there were a real threat of suicide there would have been a transfer to proper facility or at the very least a watch.

While I won't speak to the specific case, remember police deptartents are often dated. Things that wouldn't go on in larger cities and more modern departmets often are over looked or are SOP in older dated departments. Parts of Ohio and INDIANA for that matter are just about par with the 1970's at best. And te fact of the matter is some places like it that way.

 

[SavageEagle]

ACtually the County jails have padded cells they put prisoner in if they are a danger to themselves. She wasn't put in one. If she was suicidal, all she'd have to do is run head first hard enough into a door and boom instant lawsuit. She might not be dead, but the guards would have failed to keep her "safe from herself".

 

[public servant]

IF she was suicidal why wasn't she transfered to a mental health facility for maximum pretection. Removing clothes won't stop a suicidal person only slow them down slightly.
Removing clothes in this incident was a statement, not a response to suicidal utterance. If there were a real threat of suicide there would have been a transfer to proper facility or at the very least a watch.

While I won't speak to the specific case, remember police deptartents are often dated. Things that wouldn't go on in larger cities and more modern departmets often are over looked or are SOP in older dated departments. Parts of Ohio and INDIANA for that matter are just about par with the 1970's at best. And te fact of the matter is some places like it that way.

Sorry. It just doesn't happen that way. The facility I saw in the video appeared to be fairly updated and capable of housing suicide threats. The removal of her clothing from the media reports I saw and read were a response to statements she made about harming herself. Suicidal inmates are not sent to mental facilities. They are held in custody, processed and held in a suicide prevention block or cell, wearing only a suicide prevention gown (smock) and given a suicide prevention blanket until they are seen in court. 15 minute clock rounds and video monitoring are the normal procedure. There is not the funding or the staffing to provide constant monitoring. Thank the politicians.

 

[public servant]

ACtually the County jails have padded cells they put prisoner in if they are a danger to themselves. She wasn't put in one. If she was suicidal, all she'd have to do is run head first hard enough into a door and boom instant lawsuit. She might not be dead, but the guards would have failed to keep her "safe from herself".

Actually, it did appear to be an isolation cell to me. But couldn't tell from the video if the walls were padded or not. I kept touching the screen but couldn't determine. You must have a better screen than mine. Damn Dell laptops.

 

[SavageEagle]

Actually, it did appear to be an isolation cell to me. But couldn't tell from the video if the walls were padded or not. I kept touching the screen but couldn't determine. You must have a better screen than mine. Damn Dell laptops.

Uh, padded walls don't look like concrete...

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I worked in the Allen County Jail for just under six (6) months. I wasn't in intake too much, but I saw my fair share of incidents.

I'll try to address some of the issues one at at time to stay on topic.

#1) Bad arrest: No damn idea. It sounds like there may (?) have been probable cause for a deputy to stop believing her. Call me silly but handing a LEO identification that IS NOT YOURS when asked to identify yourself just may cause him/her to doubt your credibility from that point forward. Wouldn't you? Did she have a reasonable explanation? Sure. But again it would erode a LEO's trust in a person.

#2) The strip search: She was NOT being strip searched. I don't quite know how to put it into words, but a search is done in a very specific way for a specific reason. What they were doing is forcing her to remove her clothing. Were they stripping her? Yes, of course. Because an inmate is being stripped does that automatically mean they are being searched. No, of course not.

#3) Suicidal: When an inmate claims to be suicidal that automatically throws a whole system into place to protect both the inmate from self harm AND of course the sheriff/jail from being sued because they let somebodies darling little angel (who would NEVER hurt a soul, by the way) kill themselves. When I was a correctional officer a person who claimed to be suicidal automatically had the following precautions taken: A) all clothing removed. Why, most suicides are done by hanging, so nothing that could support body weight is allowed with the inmate. B) Paper clothing (and footies) are issued for the inmates privacy. C) Inmate is placed in a special, padded cell (with cameras everywhere EXCEPT toilet. D) CO MUST inspect inmate every 15 minutes AND initial a form that follows suicidal inmate EVERYWHERE. CO's are ordered to "vary" their times so that inmate can not plan the maximum amount of time to kill themselves, but it should average 1/15 minutes. E) IF the CO leaves the block w/ the suicide watch the CO MUST bring the suicidal inmates with him. So every time I had a suicidal person and had to go to lunch I would bring them along and "store" them in a cell along the hallway that was 1/3 glass. That way every guard walking by could see the suicidal inmate and observe that he/she was not attempting to choke themselves on their paper footies... Suicides were watched for 72 hours, or until released. As I recall we may have scheduled a shrink to interview said suicidal to determine whether to continue observation or release after the 72 hours, but I am not 100% on that. In this case I will guess that AFTER she was stripped she was taken to a suicide watch cell. One time I guarded an inmate who claimed to be suicidal. So he went through all this crap. He flat out told me he never would have said anything IF he would have known how he would be treated. He said he was from New Jersey and in New Jersey IF you claim to be suicidal you get sent to a mental institution for evaluation/observation. Much nicer conditions there than a jail. I'll take his word for this. So it just depends on the state laws in effect along w/ whatever local LE does above and beyond, along w/ interpretation.

#4) Men being present while female being stripped: Not relevant. Any time I was with a female inmate our regs said a female CO would be present. But IF some female inmate started something stupid (never happened w/ me) you would of course use whoever was available to control the situation. We would try to avoid sole male CO w/ female inmate contact as much as possible, but it is unavoidable. Let's face it, how many guys do you know that want to babysit 60 accused felons who have severe anger management issues? Now change that to females who want to do the same thing. When I was a CO I recall four (4) other female CO's. Not many. And of course they were assigned to the female cell block. So that didn't leave much for the rest of the jail. One time I was assigned to single handedly guard four (4) female inmates while they went one at at time to speak w/ a shrink. I was alone w/ three (3) at a time. It made me nervous because there were no cameras on me. But nothing happened. Those women could have conspired to say anything they wanted about me and it would have been my word v/s three (3). Risks are taken every day and nothing happens.

Finally, regarding this woman on the tape. In all that tape I don't think I could make out a clear, intelligble word from her, could you? Did she present herself in a way that would make you think, not being told a damn thing about the case ahead of time, that she was coherent or rational? To me she appeared emotionally distraught, irrational, and incoherent. Did she have reason to be? I think so, IF the whole story is that she called for help and was then arrested. Does she appear credible on the tape? Not to me from what I have seen JUST ON THE TAPE.

My final thought: IF you are EVER arrested - falsly or not - #1) Don't say a damn word without an attorney; #2) Do EVERYTHING LE tells you to do; #3) As quicky as possible write down everything as you can remember it including officers names, times, EVERYTHING; #4) Sue the hell out of someone AFTER the fact.

Sorry I am so long winded.

Regards,

Doug

 

[esigler]

After watching that video my blood boiled, but I didnt think about it until Public said it wasnt a stip search it was for preventing her from harming herself. I think there is much more than we know. If it was my wife I would be pissd off, but if she threatend to kill herself, I would understand? It really is just a shame it had to happen. I know there are good cops and bad, just like everybody they are human and they also should treat others as if they are. (I almost was one twenty years ago)