With "No right to resist" how do you handle this scenario?

[ATF Consumer]

I don't have any first hand no-knock warrant experience, but shouldn't the officers (assuming they are real cops) be wearing bullet proof vests and/or clearly marked jackets that say "POLICE" on them? I know its not the hardest thing in the world to get a hold of a jacket like that, but my inclination would be to hold fire if I see the name of a law enforcement agency in my sights. Furthermore, the article states the men were wearing masks when they busted through the door. I've seen SWAT officers on tv wear ski masks, but they also had "POLICE" stenciled on their vests in bright yellow letters that were 8" tall. There is NO reason an officer of the law should ever enter my home via "tactical entry", without attire identifying him as a good guy, while wearing a mask. My response to that situation?

If I were a bad guy, that's how I'd dress to gain entry...

 

[gunman41mag]

If I were a bad guy, that's how I'd dress to gain entry...

I think I'm going to have to reload 30 caliber AP ammo

 

[Relatively Ninja]

If I were a bad guy, that's how I'd dress to gain entry...

True. I'm only slightly more inclined to hold fire than I am to follow ckcollins2003's advice and open fire on any person busting down my door. I just don't like the consequences for me if the intruders did happen to be real cops. I wouldn't live to see tomorrow, that's for sure. Also, I'm a college guy with two roommates that aren't family. Who knows what they've been up to in their free time?

 

[ckcollins2003]

True. I'm only slightly more inclined to hold fire than I am to follow ckcollins2003's advice and open fire on any person busting down my door. I just don't like the consequences for me if the intruders did happen to be real cops. I wouldn't live to see tomorrow, that's for sure. Also, I'm a college guy with two roommates that aren't family. Who knows what they've been up to in their free time?

For you that would be the best advice then. I know I haven't done anything wrong, so if someone busts down my door, it's most likely to do physical harm to me or to rob me. If you don't know what your roommates have been up to, my advice will most likely get you in trouble.

 

[Relatively Ninja]

*snip*
...my advice will most likely get you in trouble.

Shame on you, this forum is for giving helpful advice, not intentionally trying to get innocent citizens shot by the police.

 

[Destro]

I don't have any first hand no-knock warrant experience, but shouldn't the officers (assuming they are real cops) be wearing bullet proof vests and/or clearly marked jackets that say "POLICE" on them? I know its not the hardest thing in the world to get a hold of a jacket like that, but my inclination would be to hold fire if I see the name of a law enforcement agency in my sights. Furthermore, the article states the men were wearing masks when they busted through the door. I've seen SWAT officers on tv wear ski masks, but they also had "POLICE" stenciled on their vests in bright yellow letters that were 8" tall. There is NO reason an officer of the law should ever enter my home via "tactical entry", without attire identifying him as a good guy, while wearing a mask. My response to that situation?

they also should be yelling loudly "POLICE" so that if you don't see them you can hear them

 

[beararms1776]

Unless your wanted for serious offenses, good guys aren't going to be kicking doors in.

 

[gunman41mag]

they also should be yelling loudly "POLICE" so that if you don't see them you can hear them

but, but, but bad guys will yell police too

 

[xamsx]

Keep your sights on them until you know they see you, but don't shoot. If they shoot first, they aren't cops. I'm pretty sure the only time a LEO will shoot first is if you're an armed and dangerous cop killer or something.

I'd take my chances if they fire first. If it's their mistake and you feared for your life, I don't know what they have against you.

This reminds me of some dash-cam video show where people get taken out of there cars and proned out at gunpoint because they waited until a populated area to pull over (no speeding involved, hazards on -- definite signs of compliance IMO). At the time a criminal impersonating a cop was pulling people over and robbing them or worse (can't remember). I'm pretty sure it didn't go in their favor, but this is a completely different scenario I think.

You forgot the purple, dude...

Seriously though, it's not like you'd be living after an ordeal like this, following your advice. You'd most likely end up with 71-or-so pieces of lead in yourself.

 

[xamsx]

I'm going to have to put steel door on my house, have at least 4 PIT-BULL running loose in my yard, have .25 inch ply-wood with 2.25 inch nails thur it on all my entrance

Nonsense. They'll just shoot the dogs and rappel down from a helicopter through your skylight..

 

[gunman41mag]

I think most leo's reading this thread would be very careful before kicking some one door down & running in like gang-busters

 

[gunman41mag]

Nonsense. They'll just shoot the dogs and rappel down from a helicopter through your skylight..

You'll hear the gun fire & prepare for all hell to break loose About my skylight, i'll have to install 8 inch long spikes, so no one will be able to enter

 

[SmileDocHill]

As soon as you hear your door get kicked in and your body realizes you have a dynamic entry into your home, I would think your likelihood of hearing anything would go down considerably. The homeowner not hearing an intruder saying "Police, Police" should be fairly easy for even a jury of regular people to understand with a couple minutes of education about the human reaction mechanisms. Note, I said "Should". Doesn't the ability to hear diminish quickly along with other physiological changes when the fight or flight instinct kicks in?

 

[gunman41mag]

As soon as you hear your door get kicked in and your body realizes you have a dynamic entry into your home, I would think your likelihood of hearing anything would go down considerably. The homeowner not hearing an intruder saying "Police, Police" should be fairly easy for even a jury of regular people to understand with a couple minutes of education about the human reaction mechanisms. Note, I said "Should". Doesn't the ability to hear diminish quickly along with other physiological changes when the fight or flight instinct kicks in?

I electronics head sets in my closet & MAVRICK 88 12 gauge under the bed

 

[patience0830]

DUH

Unless your wanted for serious offenses, good guys aren't going to be kicking doors in.

You forget the bad guys dressed like police scenario. Or the "OOPS! We made a mistake in the address." good guy scenario.

You have y too much trust in the competence of the authorities.

As for the safe room, how in the world do you expect to get up from a dead sleep and remember to take the safety off during a dynamic entry? Let alone get two or six young kids and a wife up and into a safe room before they blow the door off the hinges and throw the flashbang inside. You better have the driveway alarm set and hope they don't know you've got one.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

You forget the bad guys dressed like police scenario. Or the "OOPS! We made a mistake in the address." good guy scenario.

You have y too much trust in the competence of the authorities.

As for the safe room, how in the world do you expect to get up from a dead sleep and remember to take the safety off during a dynamic entry? Let alone get two or six young kids and a wife up and into a safe room before they blow the door off the hinges and throw the flashbang inside. You better have the driveway alarm set and hope they don't know you've got one.

I thought it was obvious that I meant like any other event or scenerio, you have to preplan a response. I don't worry about the police breaking down my doors and tossing flashbangs into my great room during family movie time, but if I did those were the steps I would take.

 

[96firephoenix]

just put a sign on the door warning that "Unwarranted entry may be met with Deadly Force."

If I had my way, all warrants would be served by a knock on the door. High-risk warrants that are now "no-knock" warrants would be served by first surrounding the property, then knocking on the door. its pretty easy to stand off to the side of a door and show ID to the peephole in order not to get shot through the door. If bullets come through the door, light them up, bring in all you have, but NEVER start off with all you have. That is the behaviour of military personell in a war zone and criminals. Not LEOs.

 

[littletommy]

I am a law abiding citizen, there are no warrants out for me, I don't sell dope, I'm not a wife beater. I see NO difference in a criminal kicking in my door wether that criminal is a robber/murderer, or some dumb cops that didn't verify their information and are at my house by "accident". The cops making a mistake can, and probably would cause my death, and maybe the death of my loved ones, and there will be no consequences for these errant cops. I see absolutely no difference in whoever may be kicking in my door, not one single difference.

 

[rbrthenderson]

This is a lose-lose situation. Anyone that kicks in my door will be shot no questions asked. With the adrenaline and the low light, I'm not going to look for police markings or listen to what they're shouting.

If they are actual police officers that are serving a warrant on the wrong house, then they will be shot at and I will probably die and it will be a horrible situation.

If they are criminals then they will be shot at and hopefully, I will get the better of them.

Either way, my mentality is to win the fight. No matter what situation.

 

[finity]

I don't have any first hand no-knock warrant experience, but shouldn't the officers (assuming they are real cops) be wearing bullet proof vests and/or clearly marked jackets that say "POLICE" on them? I know its not the hardest thing in the world to get a hold of a jacket like that, but my inclination would be to hold fire if I see the name of a law enforcement agency in my sights. Furthermore, the article states the men were wearing masks when they busted through the door. I've seen SWAT officers on tv wear ski masks, but they also had "POLICE" stenciled on their vests in bright yellow letters that were 8" tall. There is NO reason an officer of the law should ever enter my home via "tactical entry", without attire identifying him as a good guy, while wearing a mask. My response to that situation?

It's not like I've ever been on the recieving end a police entry but common sense says that you are not going to be easily able to tell who they are. They come in fast. They use flashbangs. They have bright flashlights. There is a lot of confusion. They plan it that way to make it less likely you will respond. I doubt you would be able to see the words "police" anywhere.

Things like these home invasions is why the law might be the most retarded thing the government has done yet. Thieves can now dress up as police officers and barge into people's homes while yelling police. Before this law passed, I would shoot, now I have to wait and examine them first before I know, which is most likely going to get me and my family either killed, beaten, or robbed.

I noticed you kept talking about a "law" that was passed in the other thread about the INSC decision & now you say it here again, too.

I think you're confused. There was no new "law" passed by the IN legislature. That was a decision on an interpretation of existing law as handed down by the IN supreme court. THEY were the ones who made up that law.

Talk about activist judges legislating from the bench...

they also should be yelling loudly "POLICE" so that if you don't see them you can hear them

Bad guys also yell "police". See the OP for an example.

Unless your wanted for serious offenses, good guys aren't going to be kicking doors in.

You hope.

Mistakes happen...

If I had my way, all warrants would be served by a knock on the door. High-risk warrants that are now "no-knock" warrants would be served by first surrounding the property, then knocking on the door. its pretty easy to stand off to the side of a door and show ID to the peephole in order not to get shot through the door. If bullets come through the door, light them up, bring in all you have, but NEVER start off with all you have. That is the behaviour of military personell in a war zone and criminals. Not LEOs.

QFT

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