WI governor may call out National Guard to quell riots.

[thompal]

U dont have to explain to me about the military being underpais the wife and I both served...My point being.....This country is a Dang mess right now and its only gonna get worse before it gets better for everyone.NOONE is immune

But see, THAT'S the point: the government union workers want to be immune!

It just doesn't work that way.

"Let them eat cake" was the wrong answer in one other similar situation, too.

 

[hornadylnl]

The botton line to all this which there were some great posts is if the states managed there money like our grandparents (which didnt believe in debt) then they would all be in better shape..For a while they were all spending like there was no end.

I'm 34. Which generation brought social security? Mine, my parents, my grand parents or my great grand parents? Because it certainly wasn't mine. Which generation is now demanding more and more social security payments at the expense of their own kids and grand kids? It certainly isn't mine.

 

[Wild Deuce]

Somebody somewhere said this (maybe it was a bumper sticker) ...

"Unions are like vacuum tubes. There's no denying their importance and place in history but, they've outlived their usefulness."

 

[ol' trucker]

Well, these government employee unions don't have to pay into their pension. the Governor want's them to pay 5.8 % into it. and they would rather see thousand's of them being put out of work,than to have to give up approx $40 a week towards their own pension. most of the union workers are just normal everyday citizens. but the one's they work for, the union bosses. are straight up socialist thugs. and the workers will do whatever they are told.the average salary of a union teacher in Wisconsin is $51k a year,with benefits of around $38k a year. right at 89k to work less than 9 months out of the year. I feel so bad for them.
hopefully the ungrateful bastards get what is do them. they are not intelligent enough to teach a dog how to lick it's balls. and we wonder why kid's are failing so bad in their education. well,at least they are getting some practice at holding signs. hopefully they will get to use that practice on the street corner trying to get a buck because they are starving. only in America.

 

[mcolford]

A couple pages back someone mentioned if this situation or something similiar hit home to you... Well it did for me, and Im ok with it. I will be laid off from the state of Indiana soon, as they are downsizing the state hospital I work at. Its business, I understand that. Sure, it sucks that Im out a job, along with others... But business isnt always gonna make everyone happy.

BTW I F*****G hate unions!

 

[thompal]

Somebody somewhere said this (maybe it was a bumper sticker) ...

"Unions are like vacuum tubes. There's no denying their importance and place in history but, they've outlived their usefulness."

The obvious difference is, of course, that unions have no place in rock and roll!

 

[model67a]

Most of the things that unions did when they started are now government programs. Government programs like OSHA and others would continue without unions. Unions were instrumental in getting these programs but now that they are established why do people keep paying for them? It is like buying a house. You start off needing a house to live in and the bank helps you get the house. After the house if paid for and it is yours you quit paying the bank for it!!! The unions had a purpose when they were established and they did a lot of good things but now those things are established and there is no need for the unions other than making the union executives rich!!! It was in the past if you wanted to work on a government job you could pay the union bosses and get a job on a certain project. Essentially you were buying a job. Unions were a good thing when they were initiated, but as with all things greedy people turned something that was good into something for them to get rich with and ruined it. If there is money to be made in something you can bet someone will use it to get all the money they can out of it!!!! In this situation, however, the union is willing to give the financial consessions. The governor should accept the concessions without insisting on ending the bargaining power and go ahead and get the deficit under control now and go for the bargaining power later!!! It kind of looks like he made some promises to business people for their backing to get elected to end union bargaining. If this is so he should have been smart enough to wait a while to do it so that it would not be so apparent!!! Going after collective bargaining so soon after you are elected sure doesn't look good!!!

 

[dross]

Most private sector workers have a defined contribution retirement plan. Most government workers have a defined benefit plan.

Defined contribution plan: Your employer pays a certain amount into your pension, you pay a certain amount and your actual retirement depends on how the investments perform.

Defined benefit plan: Your employer pays into your pension (usually way more than a private sector employer) you pay in, and you are guaranteed a certain amount regardless of how those investments perform.

These were promises made long ago by politicians now long gone. Many people have cried out the warnings over the years that this was unsustainable. We have no obligation to honor promises made years ago by people who wrote checks on our accounts without our permission years ago before we could even vote. These promises made by dead politicians are strangling our present and future. Time to change and of course those whose lunch bowls are getting broken are going to squeal. Too bad. These unions have ruthlessly voted their self interest at the expense of the public for many years. Now the public is broke. You guys have ridden the horse into the ground. You've killed the goose who lays the golden eggs. Screaming at the corpse is an exercise in futility.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Exactly right, Dross... The unions (and the bloated bureaucracy in general) do not even qualify as good parasites. First rule of being a parasite is: Don't kill the Host....

I personally think that the Unions are a reaction to evils done by the managing class in the past. That's useful to a point. And even NEEDED. But then it gets taken too far. The excesses of both sides need to be reined in... I believe in hiring smart people and paying them well - actually aligning their financial incentives with the success of the company. But that's me and my idealistic ways. I realize that a lot of business owners don't think the way I do. I don't think that there needs to be an adversarial relationship between "workers" and "management" since I don't believe that line should be drawn nearly as brightly as it often is. But hey that's another kettle of fish.

 

[Hotdoger]

How would u guys feel if ur Parents were the ones out there? If it happens there it could happen here to ANY of us no matter union or nonunion...if they make it easy for the union to get pensions and pay cuts what do u think it will do the the average job out there? The owners of the companys can care less about u..There loyality rest in there bank accounts..I wouls have to believe there are plenty od teachers on this site or members whos parents are teachers..What would u do if this hit home?

If my parents were out there not wanting to give up their free tax payer funded viarga, they would get the worst verbal lashing they ever had and I would never talk to them again!

 

[dleeharrison]

A number of posts calls the union representatives and memebers "thugs" - sounds like they have been imported from New Jersey. I have friends how are in the union and indeed they are not thugs! I have worked in the management side in a number of unionized companies and I have seen both sides. Unions are not entirely at fault - companies created the mess by caving in and giving the unions what they wanted instead of taking a hard stand during negogiations. So the fault goes both ways.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Unions are not entirely at fault - companies created the mess by caving in and giving the unions what they wanted instead of taking a hard stand during negogiations. So the fault goes both ways.

Maybe not entirely, but unions can make it hard to take a stand in negotiations when your business will be shut down and if you do not have money in the bank you will be out of business.

 

[Pocketman]

… These were promises made long ago by politicians now long gone. Many people have cried out the warnings over the years that this was unsustainable. We have no obligation to honor promises made years ago by people who wrote checks on our accounts without our permission years ago before we could even vote. These promises made by dead politicians are strangling our present and future. Time to change and of course those whose lunch bowls are getting broken are going to squeal. Too bad. These unions have ruthlessly voted their self interest at the expense of the public for many years. Now the public is broke. You guys have ridden the horse into the ground. You've killed the goose who lays the golden eggs. Screaming at the corpse is an exercise in futility.

Exactly right, Dross... The unions (and the bloated bureaucracy in general) do not even qualify as good parasites. First rule of being a parasite is: Don't kill the Host....

Unionized public servants have an “employment for life” mindset. Years ago I left the security of public service and have made it on my own in the private sector. I’ve gone through layoffs, changes in corporate retirement programs and having to pay more for benefits. While I didn’t necessarily like it, I understood that if my employer goes under, I’m on the street. Therefore, making concessions was a logical part of life. I was happy to keep my job, especially in down economies.

As has been pointed out, many of these public sector pension and benefit plans are unsustainable and better than what people in the private sector receive. There are two sides to this Wisconsin (only the beginning) situation, but people need to take a reality check.

 

[9lock]

YEAH! Lets round them all up, sew an emblem on they're shirts and give them a train ride to a free shower, Oh and don't forget to support your troops (past and present) they are fighting for your freedoms.

 

[DragonGunner]

Most private sector workers have a defined contribution retirement plan. Most government workers have a defined benefit plan.

Defined contribution plan: Your employer pays a certain amount into your pension, you pay a certain amount and your actual retirement depends on how the investments perform.

Defined benefit plan: Your employer pays into your pension (usually way more than a private sector employer) you pay in, and you are guaranteed a certain amount regardless of how those investments perform.

These were promises made long ago by politicians now long gone. Many people have cried out the warnings over the years that this was unsustainable. We have no obligation to honor promises made years ago by people who wrote checks on our accounts without our permission years ago before we could even vote. These promises made by dead politicians are strangling our present and future. Time to change and of course those whose lunch bowls are getting broken are going to squeal. Too bad. These unions have ruthlessly voted their self interest at the expense of the public for many years. Now the public is broke. You guys have ridden the horse into the ground. You've killed the goose who lays the golden eggs. Screaming at the corpse is an exercise in futility.

Kinda reminds me of this...
"No generation has a right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existance." Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789

 

[localone]

If my parents were out there not wanting to give up their free tax payer funded viarga, they would get the worst verbal lashing they ever had and I would never talk to them again!

U would never talk to ur parents again and give them a verbal lashing because there standing up there jobs which put clothes on there kids and food on there table? im getting full so you can stop feeding me B.S. If i ever ran my mouth to my Father he would have knocked my teeth out.

 

[HighStrung]

U really think a cop making $12 with a tiny pension or a $15 per hour firefighter would risk there life to run into a buring hose to save ur familys?

Actually, this happens all the time. Not even considering the fact that our volunteer firefighters and reserve police officers often do this exact thing for ZERO pay and no beneifts, I'm the son of a career firefighter. The amazing thing is the fact that after a few short years in the workforce, I was making more than he was after he put in 10yrs (at that time). Interestingly enough, so was the garbage collector. People don't generally enter these types of jobs due to the abundance of money they'll be making. No different is the fact that most people don't enter the teaching profession for the "high-roller" status. It's a calling of sorts for most of them. Having served many years on a volunteer fire department, as an EMT, it's a matter of doing something to help others when most people will not. Do I think Fire/Police/EMS need paid more, sure I do. Did the fact that a reduction in benefits affected my dad and my family years ago, absolutely. Was that what was needed to keep the city budget in check at that time, yes it was and we understood. Running in the negative is exactly what our govt has been doing for too long and keeping the ship afloat is short lived when operating in this manner. It's kinda funny, not to long ago I remember Obama speaking "everyone must make some sacrafice in order for everyone to make it thru this mess", maybe he was referring only to people not in a union who feel that they're above the rest of us. Lets not even get on to the fact that these people are getting there benefits on OUR dime. Whats being asked of them isn't extraordinary, it's just taking away that which they're use to, ie-the free ride is coming to a stop, please keep your hands and feet inside the car at all times while in motion. Do I feel bad for people having to loss income/benefits, yep. Has the exact same thing happened to me over the past few years in order to keep my job (and for my employer to keep their doors open), you bet. Sucks, but its been years in the making.

 

[jblomenberg16]

U would never talk to ur parents again and give them a verbal lashing because there standing up there jobs which put clothes on there kids and food on there table? im getting full so you can stop feeding me B.S. If i ever ran my mouth to my Father he would have knocked my teeth out.

Localone...perhaps your posts and thoughts would come across more clearly if you would spell correcly and use the right words. I'm not a good speller either, so am far from perfect.

It is giving me a headache reading your posts with the continued use the letter "u" in place of the word "you" and the letters "ur" in place of the word "your." Also, there are some missing words and punctuation that would really help emphasize what you are trying to say.

"Their" is the correct word to show plural possessive of "they." There is used to reference a location, and is commonly used with the word "Where." "They're" is the contraction of "they" and "are" that many of us use as part of our local slang. There are many other corrections I can make to your posts, but that's not my intention.


Again, I make a lot of spelling and word use mistakes myself, so please accept my corrections as a good intentions to help you out.

 

[Booya]

what these people are doing is just like a kid laying down in a store isle and screaming and kicking their feet till mommy gives in and buys the toy. and most of the time our modern society gives into this bad behavior when what we should do is beat that ass!

This pretty much sums up everything I was going to say!

 

[Pocketman]

Actually, this happens all the time. Not even considering the fact that our volunteer firefighters and reserve police officers often do this exact thing for ZERO pay and no beneifts, I'm the son of a career firefighter.

There have been law suits involving the International Association of Firefighters not allowing members to serve as volunteer firefighters in their home communities.