Why you should hate Omamacare

[jennybird]

Did I read this right?

Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

Yeah, I'm blown away by the entire concept, but this really threw me! They want access to MY bank account? Seriously? I'll stuff my money in a mattress first!

And jayhawk, I'm sorry that there are some folks having trouble getting medical care right now. But this "plan" will make it impossible for EVERYONE to get medical care. Just because a current system has cracks in it doesn't mean it should be replaced with broken one.

 

[jayhawk]

Can I get a copy of the entire 500 page document? Out of curiosity. I wouldn't mind reading this for myself, and highlighting these points for my own eyes.

Thanks.

Keep in mind that there are both house and senate versions and they are both under continual revision. The only versions I've found online are the original bill's as they were introduced.

The major problem with both of the current bills is that they attempt to "reform" healthcare by making it accessible to more people, but they don't attempt to reform the major problems facing the industry...namely, rising health care and insurance costs. The Wayden-Bennett health care bill addressed many of these problems that the current legislation does not. The Wayden-Bennett bill wasn't perfect, but it did provide a means for increased competition to drive down costs and attempted to minimize taxpayer liability.

And jayhawk, I'm sorry that there are some folks having trouble getting medical care right now. But this "plan" will make it impossible for EVERYONE to get medical care. Just because a current system has cracks in it doesn't mean it should be replaced with broken one.

I don't disagree with you. It should be reformed (not replaced) with a plan that actually addresses the problems that currently plague the industry.

 

[jedi]

There are no words to describe the feeling I have reading the OP.
The sad part is that come AUG/SEP 2009 this bill will become a reality.

 

[Vigilant]

Have you ever looked into how much an individual (not employer provided) insurance plan costs? I make a pretty decent salary, and it's a lot more than I'd want to pay.

Maybe your situation is different, but from my POV, there is really not a lot choice in the current health insurance market. Basically, you have to hope to get a job that offers health insurance (many employers have dropped health plans in the last couple of years), and then you take what you can get.

My dad is an independent pharmacist. He can't even set his own prices in many cases...the insurance companies tell him how much he can charge.

There are many things that are worrying about the healthcare legislation currently being discussed, but I don't think it can be said that the current system isn't failing for many many people.

Yes, I have an individual non-employer paid plan, I needed insurance, I bought it. It costs me roughly $375 per month for decent care.

 

[henktermaat]

Have you ever looked into how much an individual (not employer provided) insurance plan costs? I make a pretty decent salary, and it's a lot more than I'd want to pay.

Maybe your situation is different, but from my POV, there is really not a lot choice in the current health insurance market. Basically, you have to hope to get a job that offers health insurance (many employers have dropped health plans in the last couple of years), and then you take what you can get.

My dad is an independent pharmacist. He can't even set his own prices in many cases...the insurance companies tell him how much he can charge.

There are many things that are worrying about the healthcare legislation currently being discussed, but I don't think it can be said that the current system isn't failing for many many people.

Under the current system, everyone gets care. Yes, even folks that have no money. The hospital foots the bill and isn't allows to turn people away.

The govt will turn people away. That's not improvement in my book. It is CHANGE though- which is what you sheeple voted for after all.

What we have no is better than waiting lists and being rejected by a govt drone because you aren't sick enough. You think it's bad now? Just wait till the government has a go at it. They are a proven failure in these enterprises with a track-record of disasters as long as your arm.

I am self-employed and can afford my own insurance. It's not too much by any stretch of the imagination.

YouTube - ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!

 

[henktermaat]

THOMAS (Library of Congress)

But that give it in "sections" under text of legislation, everybody seems to refer to it as a page number. Someone please tell me how to cross reference that.

Here's a good link to view and browse thru the whole House Health Reform Bill:

Linky: House Health Reform Bill

I looked up page 59, and sure enough, found the part about the access to your personal bank accounts, so it works.

 

[jtmarine1911]

Have you ever looked into how much an individual (not employer provided) insurance plan costs? I make a pretty decent salary, and it's a lot more than I'd want to pay.

Maybe your situation is different, but from my POV, there is really not a lot choice in the current health insurance market. Basically, you have to hope to get a job that offers health insurance (many employers have dropped health plans in the last couple of years), and then you take what you can get.

My dad is an independent pharmacist. He can't even set his own prices in many cases...the insurance companies tell him how much he can charge.

There are many things that are worrying about the healthcare legislation currently being discussed, but I don't think it can be said that the current system isn't failing for many many people.

Yes I agree with you that the current system, in lack of a better term, SUCKS, but this "REFORM" is not going to be any better if not worse, PLUS it gives the Government many loopholes to side-step OUR Constitution.

I have decent insurance through my employer, but if is was not for my wife and son I would not have any. I have averaged $3000 to $4000 a year for the past 5 years out of my pocket and I have not been to a doctor in almost 10yrs, so in reality I have wasted $15,000 to $20,000 over the past 5 years. If they want to reform health care I think they should grant money back o those who pay and don't use it on a yearly basis or if you pay a years worth and don't use it, you should get that as credit for the next year and so forth until you actually use it.

 

[rambone]

Some people have their gripes with the current system, and rightfully so. There is room for adjustments to make a free-market system better.

But Obama sees this "crisis" as an opportunity. He's gonna fix that problem for you, alright. He's gonna kill a housefly with a hand-grenade... the fly will be dead, and the fly problem is "fixed", but a whole ton of new problems has been created with Obama's "solution."

Or should I say "Final Solution" ...

 

[Michiana]

If I was living in England I would be dead now.

Yes, I have an individual non-employer paid plan, I needed insurance, I bought it. It costs me roughly $375 per month for decent care.

When I left my last job I had a year and a half until I could be on Medicare at 65 so I took COBRA for one year and that cost me over $930 a month for my wife and I. Due to a previous heart condition I could not get medical insurance for myself during the three month lapse from the end of COBRA until I turned 65 but fortunately I started going to the VA and they found the heart condition was service related so I had full coverage through them. Had I not had the VA my medical bills would have almost broke me.

In March of this year I had an ICD implanted in my chest to protect me from dropping dead if my heart went into fibrillation again. Before being operated on at the VA in March I was experiencing almost 50% arrhythmias which were life threatening. Twice during the operation they had to use the paddles on me to bring my heart out of fibrillation. I am telling this because had this happened in England I would be dead now; from what I read they will not do these procedures I had on anyone older than 59 1/2. They figure it is wasting resources putting a device into anyone over this magic number.

This is the same socialized medicine Obama and crew wants so shove down our throats. This is scary stuff going on and it will affect everyone, the older people the worse. If it is not you then it will be your parents or grandparents that will be told to go take a pill as you are too old to receive medical care. There was a guy from England on the news today who went blind in one eye because they would not authorize any medical care for the problem until he started going blind in his second eye; "they" figure you can get along living with one eye only.

 

[henktermaat]

When I left my last job I had a year and a half until I could be on Medicare at 65 so I took COBRA for one year and that cost me over $930 a month for my wife and I. Due to a previous heart condition I could not get medical insurance for myself during the three month lapse from the end of COBRA until I turned 65 but fortunately I started going to the VA and they found the heart condition was service related so I had full coverage through them. Had I not had the VA my medical bills would have almost broke me.

In March of this year I had an ICD implanted in my chest to protect me from dropping dead if my heart went into fibrillation again. Before being operated on at the VA in March I was experiencing almost 50% arrhythmias which were life threatening. Twice during the operation they had to use the paddles on me to bring my heart out of fibrillation. I am telling this because had this happened in England I would be dead now; from what I read they will not do these procedures I had on anyone older than 59 1/2 years old. They figure it is wasting resources puting a device into anyone over this magic number.

This is the same socialized medicine Obama and crew wants so shove down our throats. This is scary stuff going on and it will affect everyone, the older people the worse. If it is not you then it will be your parents or grandparents that will be told to go take a pill as you are to old to receive medical care. There was a guy from England on the news today who went blind in one eye and they would not authorize any medical care for the problem until he started going blind in his second eye; "they" figure you can live with one eye only.

Wow. So, while expensive, it was worth it... and still better than Obamacare. Glad you're alive man

 

[Michiana]

Was for me

Wow. So, while expensive, it was worth it... and still better than Obamacare. Glad you're alive man

The ICD I am told costs around 30K and lasts six to seven years. I have no idea what the costs were for the operations and hospital expense. One thing I know, if Obama's mother in law/live in baby sitter needed this done I bet she would get it.

Remember that federal employees and their families are going to keep their present medical insurance, only the lucky masses will get screwed on this deal. Gee, who works for whom?

 

[jayhawk]

Under the current system, everyone gets care. Yes, even folks that have no money. The hospital foots the bill and isn't allows to turn people away.

This is only true in certain circumstances. There are many cases today where people can't get the treatment they need because their insurance companies will not authorize it. There are also numerous examples of inequal treatments offered in hospitals and emergency rooms.

I won't disagree with you that Obamacare proposal seems to be extremely misguided, but I think defending the existing "free market" system is also equally misguided.

 

[jedi]

Remember that federal employees and their families are going to keep their present medical insurance, only the lucky masses will get screwed on this deal. Gee, who works for whom?

Is this somewhere in the bill? I was under the impression that federal employees would be toss in with the rest of the public and lose their insurance if any changes occurred to their policy since their polices are with the major companies such as Blue Cross Blue Shield, Mail Carriers, etc..

 

[Vigilant]

When I left my last job I had a year and a half until I could be on Medicare at 65 so I took COBRA for one year and that cost me over $930 a month for my wife and I. Due to a previous heart condition I could not get medical insurance for myself during the three month lapse from the end of COBRA until I turned 65 but fortunately I started going to the VA and they found the heart condition was service related so I had full coverage through them. Had I not had the VA my medical bills would have almost broke me.

In March of this year I had an ICD implanted in my chest to protect me from dropping dead if my heart went into fibrillation again. Before being operated on at the VA in March I was experiencing almost 50% arrhythmias which were life threatening. Twice during the operation they had to use the paddles on me to bring my heart out of fibrillation. I am telling this because had this happened in England I would be dead now; from what I read they will not do these procedures I had on anyone older than 59 1/2. They figure it is wasting resources putting a device into anyone over this magic number.

This is the same socialized medicine Obama and crew wants so shove down our throats. This is scary stuff going on and it will affect everyone, the older people the worse. If it is not you then it will be your parents or grandparents that will be told to go take a pill as you are too old to receive medical care. There was a guy from England on the news today who went blind in one eye because they would not authorize any medical care for the problem until he started going blind in his second eye; "they" figure you can get along living with one eye only.

Ok, so why are you quoting me? I am fighting AGAINST socialized healthcare! I think that everyone should be responsible for their own. Obviously, with no malice intended toward you, your care should cost more than mine, just as car insurance costs more for high risk drivers. Giving healthcare out "FREE" is not the answer, unless everyone's "FREE" costs the same!

 

[Michiana]

Ok, so why are you quoting me? I am fighting AGAINST socialized healthcare! I think that everyone should be responsible for their own. Obviously, with no malice intended toward you, your care should cost more than mine, just as car insurance costs more for high risk drivers. Giving healthcare out "FREE" is not the answer, unless everyone's "FREE" costs the same!

I was quoting you because you brought up cost of medical insurance which I thought was very low for anything decent in todays market. I am on your side so calm down. If you read my post you would see that I am not an advocate of socialized medicine. The VA medical care is not "free", I gave four years of my life and got a medicl condition due to my service. Nothing is free, everything has a hidden cost.

 

[Michiana]

I heard that Federal employees are not included

Is this somewhere in the bill? I was under the impression that federal employees would be toss in with the rest of the public and lose their insurance if any changes occurred to their policy since their polices are with the major companies such as Blue Cross Blue Shield, Mail Carriers, etc..

I did not personally read this information in the actual bill but heard it on Fox news several times. I might be wrong but it sounds right to me, look at who had to be on SS and who has a fat pension.

 

[jedi]

I did not personally read this information in the actual bill but heard it on Fox news several times. I might be wrong but it sounds right to me, look at who had to be on SS and who has a fat pension.

???? (text in red) ???
Congress does pay into SS. Meaning their pay checks get FICA taken from them just like everyone else. Plus any Congress person who came on PRIOR to 1981 will not be collecting SS benefits since prior to 1981 they did not pay into SS. [1] Instead their money was pulled out of there check for their pension. They (pre-81) may qualify for MEDICARE but will have to pay at a premium rate HIGHER than the std. premium since they don't have enough "quaters of work under SS". Any federal employee (congress included) that started work 1-2-1981 and onward was placed on a new system in which they do pa into SS, they pay into a pension (much smaller than the previous one), and they can participate in a 401K type of program. Pre-81 employees only got to participate in a fed. pension.


[1]
Railroad workers via RR Board (federa agency), some state teachers (OH, IL, and TX are the ones I know) and some state LEO and firefighters are excluded from SS. They have a private pension plan, similar to SS, which they manage. RRB is actual OLDER than SSA. When SS started these programs were already around and were grandfathered against SS. Now-adays a STATE can choose to get out of SS if they make an agreement with the FED.

 

[aikidoka]

This is only true in certain circumstances. There are many cases today where people can't get the treatment they need because their insurance companies will not authorize it. There are also numerous examples of inequal treatments offered in hospitals and emergency rooms.

I won't disagree with you that Obamacare proposal seems to be extremely misguided, but I think defending the existing "free market" system is also equally misguided.

The current system is not an entirely free market and that is what causes a lot of problems.

 

[jedi]

I did not personally read this information in the actual bill but heard it on Fox news several times. I might be wrong but it sounds right to me, look at who had to be on SS and who has a fat pension.

Okay I found the answer.
How Will a Public Option Health Plan Affect Federal Employees and Retirees in FEHB?

The House of Representatives is debating the elements of a bill this week (and hopes to pass it before the August Congressional recess) called the "America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009." The bill would establish a "public option" health plan for Americans.
The complicated, 1,018-page bill does not specifically identify how, if passed, the public option will affect federal employees and retirees who participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan (FEHB).
However, on page 16 of the bill, under the header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill clearly states:

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.
​

This has concerned many that the public option may not be as "optional" as promised.
A column in Investor's Business Daily states "...[T]hose who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers." Read the column here.

Opponents to the bill suggest this provision, among many other aspects of the bill (including enrollment mandates, penalties, and taxes), could eventually force most Americans into the public option -- thus eliminating the choices millions of American workers and retirees now have with individual and employer-sponsored health plans (such as the FEHB).
How will the proposed bill, if passed, ultimately affect the short- and long-term health plan choices available to federal employees and retirees enrolled in FEHB? The answer is not clear. However, there is pressure to pass the bill from both Democratic Congressional leaders and the White House before the end of July. Opponents to the bill have suggested that the long-term consequences of the bill have not been adequately examined, and that more time is needed to review it.

Federal employees are not directly addressed but the provision on page 16 making all private insurances illegal **AFTER** the bill becomes law would affect federal employees as well. Since they have an employee sponsored insurance (several private ones) and thus any type of changes to those policies (which occur in DEC) would cause fed employees to lose their provider and have to get the federal options as well.

Which means that Congress too (i think) would be in the same boat unless they excluded themselves or exclude the federal government. Excluding either won't matter in the long term since the private insurance would still be losing other clinets it would only be a matter of time before they would have to raise their price they charge to their fed clinets or go out of biz since they can't grow their marketshare.

In essence the lack of growing marketshare is what ultimate will kill all the private insurances and thus put EVERYONE on the national plan.

BRILLIANT I6BO!!! BRILLIANT!!!!

 

[Michiana]

Do you think everyone will have the same coverage?

Okay I found the answer.
How Will a Public Option Health Plan Affect Federal Employees and Retirees in FEHB?

Federal employees are not directly addressed but the provision on page 16 making all private insurances illegal **AFTER** the bill becomes law would affect federal employees as well. Since they have an employee sponsored insurance (several private ones) and thus any type of changes to those policies (which occur in DEC) would cause fed employees to lose their provider and have to get the federal options as well.

Which means that Congress too (i think) would be in the same boat unless they excluded themselves or exclude the federal government. Excluding either won't matter in the long term since the private insurance would still be losing other clinets it would only be a matter of time before they would have to raise their price they charge to their fed clinets or go out of biz since they can't grow their marketshare.

In essence the lack of growing marketshare is what ultimate will kill all the private insurances and thus put EVERYONE on the national plan.

BRILLIANT I6BO!!! BRILLIANT!!!!

I believe even if this passes and everyone in the US was required to be covered under a federal plan not everyone will have the same coverage; government employees will have a better plan and also those who are Obama supporters will get some benefits the average citizen does not.