Why the hate for Cyclists?

[manifest destiny]

I plucked this from unicyclist.com (yes, there is such a website)..

MrImpossible
Aug 8

In (the US state of) Georgia, where I live, a unicycle is a “play vehicle” - basically a toy - so it’s legally not a bicycle, and isn’t allowed on the roads.
I’ve never heard of it being enforced, but if some car hit me while I was riding, I would probably end up being at least partially at fault for playing in the street.

 

[manifest destiny]

It's called a 'dicycle'. My first thought was, why?

 

[Ingomike]

The topic of bike paths is often brought up in this thread, what exactly is being referred to? Monon trail type? Popular with families and recreation riders while often used by serious road cyclists to get out to the country. Neighborhood paths along the streets in new development areas are similar. Then there are the painted lanes on the pavement that nobody wants…

 

[printcraft]

How do those pedal bars fit in? I got behind one of these in downtown Toledo a few weeks ago....but it was OK with me. Even as a non-drinker I totally understood the need to get blotto by any means necessary if you're in Toledo.

View attachment 308961

I'd pay good money to see a pit maneuver on that...

 

[printcraft]

It's called a 'dicycle'. My first thought was, why?

View attachment 308964

How it that pronounced?...

 

[Creedmoor]

How it that pronounced?...

View attachment 308966

I would pay to see your pc's history and cookies...
Well, maybe not.

 

[Creedmoor]

No one knows what its like..
To be the bad man
To be the sad man

John Lennon knew, even more so when Yoko would start worbelling when John had to do his husbandry duty's.

 

[KittySlayer]

My comments began in the context of a situation where it was a one-way street, one lane, so no possibility of a car unexpectedly appearing from the other direction, and there was clearly enough of a shoulder on the road for the passing vehicle (a bus) to share the lane with the cyclist while allowing for a 3-foot distance, but the cyclist, upon perceiving that the bus wanted to pass, began inexplicably moving further away from the curb in order to try to prevent it. So not the same as what your illustration is referring to, since there was no opposing lane for the bus to move into.

Oops, my fault for not reading the example you were portraying. I probably got lost in the fast moving thread.

Your example makes a good point that if there is plenty of room in a one way street then the cyclist ought to share. There are a few reasons I might move into the lane but being a jerk and blocking is not one of them.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Oops, my fault for not reading the example you were portraying. I probably got lost in the fast moving thread.

Your example makes a good point that if there is plenty of room in a one way street then the cyclist ought to share. There are a few reasons I might move into the lane but being a jerk and blocking is not one of them.

It's all good; sounds like we're on the same page.

 

[printcraft]

I would pay to see your pc's history and cookies...
Well, maybe not.

 

[BugI02]

I think this thread has enlightened me a little bit as to the attitude that provokes people into such resentment. Whenever we point out inconsiderate motorists, the general response from other motorists seems to be "yeah, those guys are jerks. I don't think good people should drive like that." When inconsiderate cyclists are pointed out, though, the knee-jerk reaction of other cyclists seems to be "How dare you, you whiny, entitled Karen! Don't you know they have as much right to the road as you, and probably pay more taxes than you poors?"

I'm not sure even you are being as introspective as you think. How do you feel about a faster driver tucking up behind you on a two lane because he wants to pass? Is it a rational understanding that he needs to be close to minimize the time needed to complete the pass or is it anger that that guy is 'riding your ***'

Or what if I come up upon you at a high enough differential speed that I can blow around you in a second? I guarantee you many people will be incensed, especially if I do it where there is a double yellow, but really the only concern is length of sightline. At 55 the rolling chicane is going about 80 feet per second, at 75 I'm going 110 feet per second. I can cover the 80 feet you will travel plus the 20 foot length of your vehicle in less than one second. Most sightlines on even twisty roads are several hundred feet long. Rather than slowing to match your speed and waiting for a patch of passing zone (which are usually quite short and sometimes in places I certainly wouldn't start a pass) I am by in less than a second and you will never see you again - but I guarantee that except for another enthusiast, most drivers on the receiving end probably are angry at the 'maniac' that just passed them

I have occasion to drive NY8 and 28 through the SW corner of the Adirondack Park a couple of times per year, and that is pretty much how it goes. Most drivers could pass a cyclist or three in even less time because the speed differential is greater, so only have to take two wheels over the yellow for 1/2 second

Following is what Ohio Revised Code says about the situation for bicycles. I'm betting Indiana has something similar (and am expecting flack about the 'trackless trolley' language. ORC goes quite far back)

Ohio Revised Code § 4511.31(A):

“The department of transportation may determine those portions of any state highway where overtaking and passing other traffic or driving to the left of the center or center line of the roadway would be especially hazardous and may, by appropriate signs or markings on the highway, indicate the beginning and end of such zones. When such signs or markings are in place and clearly visible, every operator of a vehicle or trackless trolley shall obey the directions of the signs or markings . . .“

Ohio Revised Code § 4511.31(B):

“Division (A) of this section does not apply when all of the following apply:

The slower vehicle is proceeding at less than half the speed of the speed limit applicable to that location.
The faster vehicle is capable of overtaking and passing the slower vehicle without exceeding the speed limit.
There is sufficient clear sight distance to the left of the center or center line of the roadway to meet the overtaking and passing provisions of section 4511.29 of the Revised Code, considering the speed of the slower vehicle.”

 

[MuttX7]

A bicyclist hitting you at 15 to 20 mph isn't going to do much damage or put your life at risk. a stoner piloting 3000 lbs at 60 or 70 mph will, but one gets a pass and one does not

So explain this:

Amanda Whitaker was walking with friends on the B-Line Trail last month when a bicyclist came barreling down the Grimes Street overpass hill straight toward her. The bike struck full-on, knocking her out of her ballet flats and into the air before her left side hit the pavement.

She spent six hours at the IU Health Bloomington Hospital emergency room being treated for her injuries. The man who ran over her, who admitted knowing the brakes didn't work, rode away on the bike without a ticket or citation.

Two days after the incident, intense pain and nausea sent Whitaker back to the emergency room for additional testing.

More than a month later, the occupational therapist is still recovering from a broken rib, collapsed lung, deep bruising across her body, ongoing pain and partial hearing loss.

Cyclist injures Bloomington pedestrian. Police, prosecutor take no action. Why?

"I don’t quite understand why assault and battery charges don’t apply,” City Council member Stephen Volan said

www.heraldtimesonline.com

 

[BugI02]

I've never avoided that assertion. Though, even in the link you provided, I'd say that 10% is statistically significant. And I suspect that the percentage has a distinct urban-vs-rural divergence - especially urban areas with established public transportation means. In Indiana? I suspect that there are very few cyclists who don't own automobiles. I'd guess that it's a thing in the more hipster parts of, say Indy or Bloomington; but not much to speak of outside of such places.

Regarding your second link, this is an absurd argument: "The tired old argument that cyclists have less right to be on the road because they don’t pay vehicle excise duty – sometimes still referred to as road tax – received another blow this week when it transpired that cyclists are more likely to also drive cars, and pay VED, than the population as a whole."

It's also unlikely to be true. A) The data are for the UK, not for the US, B) The numbers (83% of cyclists own vehicles, compared to 82% of the overall population) are an estimate based on survey data, and C) The results (83% vs 82%) are almost certainly within the margin of error for the survey in question.

As I said, quick and dirty search. Those were the best numbers available therefrom. Sure, England is quite different from us but closer than many countries where bicycles would be MUCH more common, such as Denmark, and where they often keep records in greater depth than we do . British data seems to be well respected when using it to compare vaccine effectiveness or outcomes with the US. There will be some percentage of both US and UK citizens who only take public transportation, also, adding to the numbers that don't own cars. I found the numbers interesting in that the rate of exposure to fees was the same whether one owned a bicycle or not

Other estimates show about 8% of US households own a bicycle but 91.7% own at least 1 car (22.1% own three or more). It is likely that something close to 92% of all US bicycle owning households also own at least one car

 

[BugI02]

So explain this:

Cyclist injures Bloomington pedestrian. Police, prosecutor take no action. Why?

"I don’t quite understand why assault and battery charges don’t apply,” City Council member Stephen Volan said

www.heraldtimesonline.com

I believe the context of that post was about the collision of vehicles such that a bicycle striking your car would not do much damage or put your life at risk, but a 3000+ lb vehicle piloted by a stoner certainly would

Sounds like even a reasonably fast runner in a similar collision would have damaged her. Not sure what her available time to react was, but unless she couldn't see up the Grimes Street Overpass hill at all, it sounds like she did the deer in the headlights thing and didn't get off the X. Do pedestrians have the right of way on those trails? A quick goto says it is a multi-use trail. Here some of our trails are purely bike paths, and pedestrians have to give way and should not have unleashed children or pets, and others are multi-use and pedestrians have the right of way - with the caveat that having the right of way w/o being attentive can bring about bad results. I'm surprised there was no citation issued, she should probably sue his ***

 

[BugI02]

Does this qualify for the HOV lane?

View attachment 308959

HOA lane, maybe

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I'm not sure even you are being as introspective as you think. How do you feel about a faster driver tucking up behind you on a two lane because he wants to pass? Is it a rational understanding that he needs to be close to minimize the time needed to complete the pass or is it anger that that guy is 'riding your ***'

Or what if I come up upon you at a high enough differential speed that I can blow around you in a second? I guarantee you many people will be incensed, especially if I do it where there is a double yellow, but really the only concern is length of sightline. At 55 the rolling chicane is going about 80 feet per second, at 75 I'm going 110 feet per second. I can cover the 80 feet you will travel plus the 20 foot length of your vehicle in less than one second. Most sightlines on even twisty roads are several hundred feet long. Rather than slowing to match your speed and waiting for a patch of passing zone (which are usually quite short and sometimes in places I certainly wouldn't start a pass) I am by in less than a second and you will never see you again - but I guarantee that except for another enthusiast, most drivers on the receiving end probably are angry at the 'maniac' that just passed them

I have occasion to drive NY8 and 28 through the SW corner of the Adirondack Park a couple of times per year, and that is pretty much how it goes. Most drivers could pass a cyclist or three in even less time because the speed differential is greater, so only have to take two wheels over the yellow for 1/2 second

Following is what Ohio Revised Code says about the situation for bicycles. I'm betting Indiana has something similar (and am expecting flack about the 'trackless trolley' language. ORC goes quite far back)

Ohio Revised Code § 4511.31(A):

“The department of transportation may determine those portions of any state highway where overtaking and passing other traffic or driving to the left of the center or center line of the roadway would be especially hazardous and may, by appropriate signs or markings on the highway, indicate the beginning and end of such zones. When such signs or markings are in place and clearly visible, every operator of a vehicle or trackless trolley shall obey the directions of the signs or markings . . .“

Ohio Revised Code § 4511.31(B):

“Division (A) of this section does not apply when all of the following apply:

The slower vehicle is proceeding at less than half the speed of the speed limit applicable to that location.
The faster vehicle is capable of overtaking and passing the slower vehicle without exceeding the speed limit.
There is sufficient clear sight distance to the left of the center or center line of the roadway to meet the overtaking and passing provisions of section 4511.29 of the Revised Code, considering the speed of the slower vehicle.”

I mean, you're kind of proving my point. Most motorists, myself included, are quite willing to admit that there is a high number of inconsiderate, unsafe motorists on the road, and to condemn unsafe behavior, like unsafe passing that you pointed out. But the moment I point out any sort of behavior that I perceive as counterproductive on the part of cyclists, and all you can do is try to deflect to "oh, but what about all those unsafe motorists?"

I agree with you that motorists should not pass other motorists unsafely. But if I see someone aiming to pass me in a situation that I deem unsafe, I'm not gonna play cop and floor the gas or push over into the other lane to try to dissuade them from doing so. I'm going to adopt defensive driving, and if they must pass me, all I can do is try my best to stop a collision from happening, whether I'm angry at them or not. Simply saying that cyclists should do the same seems to have gotten you all up in arms, though, and I really don't get why?

 

[jamil]

It's called a 'dicycle'. My first thought was, why?

View attachment 308964

“Because I can” is always the answer to why for something like that. Some dude laying awake at night, dreaming that **** up, wife just sure he’s thinking about other women, and then it becomes a meme.

 

[actaeon277]

No one knows what its like..
To be the bad man
To be the sad man

No one knows what it's like
To be hated
To be fated
To telling only lies

 

[BugI02]

I mean, you're kind of proving my point. Most motorists, myself included, are quite willing to admit that there is a high number of inconsiderate, unsafe motorists on the road, and to condemn unsafe behavior, like unsafe passing that you pointed out. But the moment I point out any sort of behavior that I perceive as counterproductive on the part of cyclists, and all you can do is try to deflect to "oh, but what about all those unsafe motorists?"

I agree with you that motorists should not pass other motorists unsafely. But if I see someone aiming to pass me in a situation that I deem unsafe, I'm not gonna play cop and floor the gas or push over into the other lane to try to dissuade them from doing so. I'm going to adopt defensive driving, and if they must pass me, all I can do is try my best to stop a collision from happening, whether I'm angry at them or not. Simply saying that cyclists should do the same seems to have gotten you all up in arms, though, and I really don't get why?

Because I suspect we are talking about two different things. Do you somehow have the image in your mind that most interactions between cyclists and cars is of the wide group filling the lane? That is the exception rather than the rule. As a cyclist riding single file or alone, I am almost always within 18 inches of the curb or edge of the road. I don't have anywhere to pull over to to please the people who so desperately need me to yield even though they have plenty of room to get by easily and safely. In just that configuration, riding alone, I have been struck in the back by an orange, an empty pop can and a C or D cell battery among other things and I was doing absolutely nothing but minding my own business and riding within myself

I would absolutely agree that a large group of riders should be single file though I would not say they should break into smaller groups. It is possible they ride in larger groups for the same reasons motorcyclists do - because cage people are the real problem

 

[BugI02]

It seems like a lot of people on the road are closer to this guy than good people just trying to get along. YMMV