Why the FBI Created the .40SW

[Hohn]

It was my understanding that after the shooting in Florida the FBI said enough is enough. We need a hand gun that will shoot a cartridge equal to a 357 125gr load, that would hold at least 10 rounds and be as easy to train on as a 38. Sig offered the 357 Sig, Smith & Wesson offered the 40 S&W and Colt offered a 10mm in a 1911 package. They went with the 40 S&W. It was in all the gun mags at the time. It has also been a big hit with the public. A cartridge that has stopping power and is easy to control, what is not to like.

Me, I like the 45 ACP. The only problem with it is they are so heavy. I like to shoot my Glock 21 but I don't like carrying it all day. My 36 is great to carry but it only has 7 rounds. The Glock 30 is close to being just what one needs but it is so wide, it's a beast to hide. I think it would be good to go in a shoulder rig. I just can't find any one that makes one that don't cost $200.

So I must admit that of late I am thinking about trying out a 40 S&W for carry. If I do go this rout it is going to be hard to get rid of my 45s.

I went back to the FBI site and got some dates. The FBI shoot out was in 1986. After the shoot out they went with the 10mm then used a reduced load for it. The complaint about it was it was to big and was to heavy for there normal carry. The 357 Sig came out in 1994. The 40S&W came out in 1990. The FBI picked the Glock 40S&W as there carry weapon in 1997. So what I read was right. I just had the gun that the FBI picked wrong. The S& W pistol didn't come out till two weeks after they picked the Glock.

FBI wouldn't have selected the 125gr .357 mag load because the standard FBI load was a 158gr .38spl SWC. This heavy and slow load is what the baseline was. 158gr at 950fps.

Saying that a gun is too big and too heavy is not the same as saying a 10mm round has too much recoil for small agents. It's actually close to the opposite.

Every sentence of your first paragraph is incorrect, in context. It wasn't a trial where each manufacturer submits their own gun/caliber for testing and the FBI picks one. It wasn't like that at all.

The FBI never tested *guns*. They only tested ammo through SAAMI test barrels. Politics of the time dictated that it would be S&W that got the contract. They did. All the initial 10mm issue pistols were S&W.

So, SIG didn't offer the .357 Sig because it didn't exist in 1988. S&W didn't offer the .40 because it didn't exist yet, either. Colt never submitted anything, even in 10mm.

The FBI tested ammo and picked the 10mm. They then went to S&W (non competitively bid) and spec'd the gun for it. That was issued.

S&W independently developed the .40 using the FBI Lite 10mm as the baseline (1990). It caught on elsewhere long before the FBI switched in 1997. When the FBI did switch, they didn't go with S&W, but with Glock.

That's my understanding.

H

 

[6mm Shoot]

Hay I was just repeating what I read. I wasn't there and have no idea what happened. I never said that the FBI carried the 125 gr load. There information on shootings told them that the 125 gr was the best stopper according to the shooting information they had from shoot outs. That is why they used it as a standard. Well at least that is what I read. Hell for all I know it is all wrong. That can happen when you repeat what you read. By the way it was 10 years between the time the FBI picked the 10mm and then picked the 40 S&W Glock.

 

[DeltaLover]

my 10mm Colt Delta Elite is by far my favorite gun. My wife loves it better than my 9mm lol

Or, the 10mm (Fbi Special) as it was then known.

Here is the FBI's publication from November 1989 that documented the testing that led to the adoption of the "10mm" by the FBI.

Some interesting observations:

The tested FBI load that was voted overall best performer was 180gr at only 950fps. What are the typical .40SW loads at in 180gr?
- Speer Gold Dot: 1025fps
- Ranger T: 990fps
- Federal HST: 1010fps
- Speer "short barrel": 950fps

Interesting that the Speer short barrel is exactly the same specs as the load the FBI whipped up for the 10mm testing.

Do read all of the report. Especially the part about extra power in the round just giving more recoil and muzzle flash without any increase in ballistic performance.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51346644/FBI-10mm.pdf

 

[ashby koss]

Thanks for the data! I do run 180gr 40's in my g27 but I also try to stay away form any "This caliber is best" statements or flame wars