Why Ron Paul can beat Obama: He converts Democrats on war & civil liberty

[Bitter Clinger]

Is it still propaganda if its true?

We went over this before. Palin had next to nothing to do with that money. It's a LAW since the 70's that the people get that money. Its not like Palin charged the oil companies extra money so she could give it to the people.

You really need to read more than those liberal propaganda rags. Governor Palin had EVERYTHING to do with it. The Alaska Constitution gives ownership of the state's resources to its citizens. Previous governors gave the oil companies sweetheart deals in return for campaign contributions. The Alaskan citizens didn't get what their property was worth. Governor Palin threw out the good-ol-boy network and drove a hard bargain with the oil companies. They didn't like it, but they paid. And Alaskans got a fair price for their resources.

Stop blindly accepting what the liberal media feeds you. Do your own research. Liberals are SCARED TO DEATH of Sarah Palin, and will say anything to try to bring her down. But she's still standing.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

You really need to read more than those liberal propaganda rags. Governor Palin had EVERYTHING to do with it. The Alaska Constitution gives ownership of the state's resources to its citizens. Previous governors gave the oil companies sweetheart deals in return for campaign contributions. The Alaskan citizens didn't get what their property was worth. Governor Palin threw out the good-ol-boy network and drove a hard bargain with the oil companies. They didn't like it, but they paid. And Alaskans got a fair price for their resources.

Stop blindly accepting what the liberal media feeds you. Do your own research. Liberals are SCARED TO DEATH of Sarah Palin, and will say anything to try to bring her down. But she's still standing.

Maybe YOU should quit reading those liberal propaganda sites. I for one am NOT shocked that she took a hard line stance against "oil" companies. When your predecessor gets voted out because he was buddy buddy with them, you DONT do the same if you want to stay in office.

Its not that people are scared OF her, its that we are scared of WHAT she would do to America.

Oh, and was that "hard baragin" you spoke of, Palin raising taxes on oil companies? I suppose that turned out ok since Alaska has some of the highest gas and energy prices. RIght now the Average gas price per gallon in Alaska is $1 more than here in Northern VA. I guess people can take them Energy refunds and set them aside to be used to help put gas in their tanks throughout the year

 

[Paco Bedejo]

LOL - you have to pull out propaganda from a month after the Governor was nominated as VP?

You are here.

she cut a hard deal with the oil companies, and every man woman and child in Alaska got a $1200 check as their share as owners of Alaska's natural resources.

Fewer than 700,000 people live in Alaska. If every one of them got $1200, that means her "hard deal" took less than $840 million from the oil companies...less than 10% of a single oil company's yearly profit...

Bitterly clinging to her, aintcha?

 

[Bitter Clinger]

Wow - we have some real sheeple here. Just keep drinking the cool aid, the media knows best.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

Wow - we have some real sheeple here. Just keep drinking the cool aid, the media knows best.

I agree, peopel that dont agree with you are sheeple blindly following the media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWegdnKWp4M

Media got that one wrong too huh Bitter

 

[dead2rights]

Like it has been said before, RP can't win because he makes sense. He goes against everything our current government stands for.

 

[Expat]

RP can't win because he makes sense.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-09-30-10-34-45

http://lisarichardsusa.wordpress.com/tag/ron-paul-defedns-iran/

This kind of crap is the real reason.

 

[rambone]

News from The Associated Press

Ron Paul Defedns Iran « Lisa Richards

This kind of crap is the real reason.

Vote for the Establishment then. You can be sure you'll get the new wars you want and see more terror suspects killed without trial. Hell, just vote for Obama, he's a better neocon than any of these clowns. He's out-bushed George Bush in fighting the War on Terror.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

Vote for the Establishment then. You can be sure you'll get the new wars you want and see more terror suspects killed without trial. Hell, just vote for Obama, he's a better neocon than any of these clowns. He's out-bushed George Bush in fighting the War on Terror.

So true ... for someone that opposed the patriot act, and the wars. Obama sure has no problem extending them plus going to war with Libya (which from what i can tell is still illegal beings congress didnt vote on it).

 

[Taylorz71]

Vote for the Establishment then. You can be sure you'll get the new wars you want and see more terror suspects killed without trial. Hell, just vote for Obama, he's a better neocon than any of these clowns. He's out-bushed George Bush in fighting the War on Terror.

Well said, Perry will be just another globalist puppet and it would be likely that any of the other front runners would be too. I don't agree with everything that Ron Paul says or does, but he does know and understand the US Constitution and would die to protect it. That is good enough for me and the only we can turn things around is if we get a leader like this into office. I am just not quite ready to be shoved into a FEMA camp yet.

 

[NYFelon]

News from The Associated Press

Ron Paul Defedns Iran « Lisa Richards

This kind of crap is the real reason.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Ron Paul's total foreign policy package. There are pieces that make sense, and some I find just a touch too "utopian". With that, how is what he said about Iran being a third world country with no real Army, Navy or nuclear delivery system inaccurate?

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Ron Paul's total foreign policy package. There are pieces that make sense, and some I find just a touch too "utopian". With that, how is what he said about Iran being a third world country with no real Army, Navy or nuclear delivery system inaccurate?

One million man army with T72 tanks and Super Cobras is not a real army? An air force with F14, Mirage and Mig 29s is not real? What is needed to deliver a nuclear device?

 

[Expat]

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Ron Paul's total foreign policy package. There are pieces that make sense, and some I find just a touch too "utopian". With that, how is what he said about Iran being a third world country with no real Army, Navy or nuclear delivery system inaccurate?

I just don't think you are going to win the Republican primary saying you don't care if Iran gets nukes. I don't think you could even win the general with that position. Most of the American people are going to expect a nuke in Tel Aviv soon thereafter. They are also going to be concerned that a nuke or at the very least nuclear material (dirty bomb) will end up in the hands al Qaeda, smuggled across our southern border and then detonated in a large US city.

 

[rambone]

They are also going to be concerned that a nuke or at the very least nuclear material (dirty bomb) will end up in the hands al Qaeda, smuggled across our southern border and then detonated in a large US city.

"We need to worry about our borders here at home, not worry about the borders around the world, and the border between Syria and Iraq - that doesn't have anything to do with our national security, we have to deal with our own national security. Our military right now is in shambles because we've been stretched too thin. One of these days we're gonna have to wake up, and I'm afraid we won't wake up until we go bankrupt, and we're approaching that time already." - Ron Paul, MSNBC, 2007

 

[gunowner930]

One million man army with T72 tanks and Super Cobras is not a real army? An air force with F14, Mirage and Mig 29s is not real? What is needed to deliver a nuclear device?

Could Iran deliver a nuke (if they had one) to its immediate neighbors? Yeah, but they couldn't dream of hitting CONUS with the equipment they currently possess. Their equipment is nowhere near the caliber of ours, NATO (mostly), or Israel. If they were able to nuke Israel, Israel would return fire and Iran would not be in great shape.

What Ron Paul was saying is that Iran's Armed Forces are not anywhere near our level, and that they are not a threat to us with or without a nuke. Those aircraft may be effective against their neighbors, but with the exception of the F14, there is nothing they have that we didnt handle in Desert Storm 20 years ago, and we've gotten stronger since.

 

[NYFelon]

One million man army with T72 tanks and Super Cobras is not a real army? An air force with F14, Mirage and Mig 29s is not real? What is needed to deliver a nuclear device?

A million man army? Where'd you get that figure? Depending on who you ask The Army of the Islamic Republic of Iran is either 465,000 or 350,000 regulars, consisting of both volunteers and conscripts. With reservists, their forces may total 750,000 - 800,000. So sure, if you round upwards from their best possible case scenario, sure they have an almost million man army. How are their logistics which would be required to support a large scale operation outside of their borders?

As far as Materiel, We've seen how well T-72s stand up in modern combat repeatedly in small skirmishes we've been involved in globally. For Christ's sake the AIRI still has M48s in service. That's a 60 year old tank. Their best models are probably the M60A1 and Chieftan Mk3's they have, and who knows what operational condition they are in. I'm not too certain how readily available proprietary equipment from the US and the UK is to IRR. So, I'm pretty sure they're outgunned in terms of armor as well. And again, Iran is a net importer of fuel. Tanks are pretty thirsty. So, they can either fuel the tanker trucks necessary to sustain an armored push outside of their borders, or they can fuel the tanks.

F-14s? Seriously? Sure, we gave the shah what, 50 F-14s in the 1970s? How many of those airframes are still even functional? Again, I'm fairly certain Northrop's not in the business of shipping spare parts to Iran. So, let's say that 20 of them are still flight worthy (probably a very high-ended estimate), they're still sporting the same avionics packages they were in the 70s. Then there's the matter of pilots. I don't know about you, but I sleep soundly at night thinking that the pilots of the United States Air Force are roundly superior to any and everything the IRR can field. The rest of their air force is what? A dozen or so D'assault's they stole from Iraq in the 90s, and probably the biggest concern, a Squadron of MiG-29s.

Do you honestly feel that the military of Iran poses any significant threat to either the United States, or her military? I can't remotely understand how.

As for your other question, admittedly, that was my fault for misstating my point. Iran does not have the means to deliver a nuclear weapon to the US. The Shahab's I, II, II and even IV are SR, and MRBMs respectively. What threat to the United States do 1500km launch devices present? Not what possible threat do they present if we go to war with Iran. What threat do they present to the United States? I posit they present no threat to us whatsoever. The Shahab V, dereived from the DPRK's Tae'po-Dong II missile is as of yet still in the design stage and is estimated to be an IRBM. Again, still no threat to the US.

So, in the absence of a launch vehicle capable of reaching the US, what do you propose tyey do? Fly it here on a stealth flying carpet? Mail it?

I maintain my position. Iran has no military capacity which is significant in any modern fashion. Their purported nuclear ambitions also represent no realistic threat to the United States.

I just don't think you are going to win the Republican primary saying you don't care if Iran gets nukes. I don't think you could even win the general with that position. Most of the American people are going to expect a nuke in Tel Aviv soon thereafter. They are also going to be concerned that a nuke or at the very least nuclear material (dirty bomb) will end up in the hands al Qaeda, smuggled across our southern border and then detonated in a large US city.

Like I've said, not all of Mr Paul's foreign policy ideas are to my liking. I still prefer him to all of the mainstream candidates. I fail to see how a regional issue between Iran and Israel is our concern. When I say I'm for the elimination of all foriegn aid, including military subsidies, that includes Israel. It's high time the US stopped shouldering the burden of everyone else's defense.

As for Iran pawning off a nuke to Terrorists, it would most likely be Hizbollah, if anyone at all. If they did provide one to A.Q., and they did detonate it here, how long afterwards do you think it would be until all the maps of the world had to be redrawn with a glow-in-the-dark patch where Iran used to be? No, I don't think Iran would go handing nukes off to anyone. Look at Pakistan. They have nukes, and their government is INFESTED with Islamic radicals. Yet still, they have not had a nuclear yard sale where all nut bag radical murderers were invited. I personally don't buy into the idea that Iran would be anymore likely to do than Pakistan is. They both know that were they to do so, would insure their ultimate destruction.

Again, all jmho. And I respect your right to yours.


sources:

wikipedia
globalsecurity
janes defence

 

[rambone]

More on the subject of the OP:

Ron unites a broad spectrum of voters. Here he sides with Nader & Kucinich in addressing the Wall Street protesters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLdcB0ln9t8

 

[Paco Bedejo]

More on the subject of the OP:

Ron unites a broad spectrum of voters. Here he sides with Nader & Kucinich in addressing the Wall Street protesters.

Don't listen to any of those liberal whackjobs...all we need to get out of this mess is some good ol' welfare, warfare, & social controls. I mean...what if someone who chooses not to work can't provide for his family, Iran's space program develops ICBMs, or gays start marrying?!

 

[Garb]

Don't listen to any of those liberal whackjobs...all we need to get out of this mess is some good ol' welfare, warfare, & social controls. I mean...what if someone who chooses not to work can't provide for his family, Iran's space program develops ICBMs, or gays start marrying?!

Oh the humanity!!!

 

[tnek]

I liked paul but he has shown he is so out of touch with the world he is dangerous.