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Why I now carry the SIG Sauer P320 Compact 9mm pistol

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    ECS686

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    Vanguard.45 said:
    Not sure if the Customs and Border Patrol guys were running the LEM P2000s or the DAO versions (non-LEM V5). I think they were running the latter when I was working with one of their classes down at FLETC, but all the articles I see indicate they were running the LEM. It must have been the heavier LEM (v2, maybe?) as I remember the trigger being pretty heavy.
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    I taught at FLETC periodically to Recert as a Lead. The BP and Customs ran HK P2000 LEM in 40cal from around 2004 to 2018 when they went to Glock 47’s.

    From the mid 1990’s to 2004 ish the BP was issued Beretta DAO in 40 cal (when they came up with that whole Brigadier slide) but could carry approved personal stuff. Customs had smorgasbord of S&W DAO and Glock 17’s

    From whenever to around 2002 then US Marshals issued duty gun was a 3” GP 100 with 357 Winchester 145 Silvertip although 90% carried a Agency approved personal gun of about a 50/50 Glock 17/22 or Sig 220/226/228. In 2002 they went to 100% issued Glock 22 in 40 and now run Glock 17/19 wit Red Dot and Hornady Critical duty 135 plus p (basically the FBI stuff) the USMS SOG is running Staccato
     
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    Expat

    Expat

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    I am just glad that we have all been able to agree that although there may have been some minor foibles along the way, the 320 is clearly superior to the Glocks in just about every way. I don't carry either and as an independent observer, it warms my heart to see the INGO come together on something.
     
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    cedartop

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    Expat said:
    I am just glad that we have all been able to agree that although there may have been some minor foibles along the way, the 320 is clearly superior to the Glocks in just about every way. I don't carry either and as an independent observer, it warms my heart to see the INGO come together on something.
    Click to expand...
    What's the matter, was the thread calming down a little too much for you?
     
    Vanguard.45

    Vanguard.45

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    ECS686 said:
    I taught at FLETC periodically to Recert as a Lead. The BP and Customs ran HK P2000 LEM in 40cal from around 2004 to 2018 when they went to Glock 47’s.

    From the mid 1990’s to 2004 ish the BP was issued Beretta DAO in 40 cal (when they came up with that whole Brigadier slide) but could carry approved personal stuff. Customs had smorgasbord of S&W DAO and Glock 17’s

    From whenever to around 2002 then US Marshals issued duty gun was a 3” GP 100 with 357 Winchester 145 Silvertip although 90% carried a Agency approved personal gun of about a 50/50 Glock 17/22 or Sig 220/226/228. In 2002 they went to 100% issued Glock 22 in 40 and now run Glock 17/19 wit Red Dot and Hornady Critical duty 135 plus p (basically the FBI stuff) the USMS SOG is running Staccato
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, I agree the trigger was likely the LEM on their pistols, but I believe it was the v.2, which is not the "Light LEM" we all know and love today. Their quals had some tight times, and I remember looking over their pistols and thinking the triggers felt more like "lightened DAO" triggers as opposed to the Light LEMs. Thanks for the clarification and history.
     
    Brad69

    Brad69

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    Never shot a LEM HK it’s a HK so it’s probably great.

    What happened to the SIg DAK that was all the rage for awhile?

    I have a Walther PPX is has some kind of crazy DAO system.
    It feels like a striker fire system on the first shot. When you get to reset it’s got like a 2lbs pull crazy accurate as well. Germans do some weird stuff
     
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    ECS686

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    Brad69 said:
    Never shot a LEM HK it’s a HK so it’s probably great.

    What happened to the SIg DAK that was all the rage for awhile?

    I have a Walther PPX is has some kind of crazy DAO system.
    It feels like a striker fire system on the first shot. When you get to reset it’s got like a 2lbs pull crazy accurate as well. Germans do some weird stuff
    Click to expand...
    The Walther PPx is similar to an LEM but not as refined.

    As far as Sig DAK it seems it was an attempt to emulate the LEM. It is better than a traditional DAO SIG 220 series. I know some Homeland Security Agencies as well as FAMs used the 229 DAK for a while. FAMs might still .

    Sig just isn’t pushing it like their striker fired options as many agencies are going away from hammer fired guns.

    I know NYCPD still authorized Sig DAO (not to be confused with DAK) and one was on body cam from a recent shooting.
     
    Route 45

    Route 45

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    Creedmoor said:
    Ive been holding this back for a bit.
    Hang on and tighten up your velcro new balances Pops,

    Glocks do have a mechanical safety,
    One has to pull or push the dongal back in order for it to fire.
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    Pops? Dude. I was in elementary school while you were toting a 1911 and eating crayons.

    :):

    As far as trigger dongles go, calling them “safeties” has always seemed a bit of a stretch to me. Kinda like the gas and the brake being the same pedal.
     
    Creedmoor

    Creedmoor

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    Route 45 said:
    Pops? Dude. I was in elementary school while you were toting a 1911 and eating crayons.

    :):

    As far as trigger dongles go, calling them “safeties” has always seemed a bit of a stretch to me. Kinda like the gas and the brake being the same pedal.
    Click to expand...
    Why do you think calling the glock dongle a safety is a stretch?

    Does it not stop the firearm from functioning until its been pulled or pushed to the fire position?

    A safety is a device that blocks the action to prevent the firearm from shooting until the safety is released or pushed to the off position. The safety is intended to prevent the firearm from being fired accidentally.

     
    Route 45

    Route 45

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    Creedmoor said:
    Why do you think calling the glock dongle a safety is a stretch?

    Does it not stop the firearm from functioning until its been pulled or pushed to the fire position?

    A safety is a device that blocks the action to prevent the firearm from shooting until the safety is released or pushed to the off position. The safety is intended to prevent the firearm from being fired accidentally.
    Click to expand...
    Textbook definitions and reality often have little to do with each other. If deactivating the "safety" and pulling the trigger are literally the same motion, it ain't much of a safety.
     
    Creedmoor

    Creedmoor

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    Route 45 said:
    Textbook definitions and reality often have little to do with each other. If deactivating the "safety" and pulling the trigger are literally the same motion, it ain't much of a safety.
    Click to expand...
    Its kinna hard to fire one without having the dongle in the fire position.
    One has to engage it, Its a manual safety.

    On a glock one can easily disengage the safety and not fire the pistol.
     
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    firecadet613

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    Route 45 said:
    View attachment 321440
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    He should stick to Sigs...Glocks are hard...

    328f96063a567d756e046ecb82ee04ac.gif
     
    BigMoose

    BigMoose

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    Speaking of the P320/M17.. the returned M17s were not the first time that Sig sold military issue firearms to the public.

    It is a bit of a Grail gun, but sig released some overrun M11 (marked M11B) pistols for sale. Best accounts is the number is about 50 give or take. No one knows how many. You will know them as they have a B stamped after the M11 after the fact. Yes these are over runs, and not field issued like the M17s. But these are rarer, they clear $5000 when they do come up for sale unused. Why the B? Back then SIG couldn't sell M11s to the public, but the legal department came up with the idea if they stamped a B after M11, it would not violate the contract.

    1703647036859.jpeg
     
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