Why do "smart" people point guns at themselves?

[bwframe]

Why do otherwise seemingly intelligent people point their guns at themselves? Even well healed folks who have touted their firearms knowledge for years? How do they not know the four rules?

 

[danielson]

Im guessing there is a strong correlation between those who handle firearms in that manner, and those who put a slide back plate with the punisher logo on their Glock...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

All it takes is to forget for just a moment, at the right time. Any of us could do it.

 

[bwframe]

All it takes is to forget for just a moment, at the right time. Any of us could do it.

Yep, especially if the 4 rules get in the way of our regular habits...

 

[jb1911]

[h=2]Why do "smart" people point guns at themselves?[/h]
They don't.

 

[jdmack79]

They do it because contrary to what some rule says, a gun that is unloaded will not harm you. Criticize me all you want; after removing all ammunition/loaded mags from the area I'm working in and unloading the gun, I'd have no problem with pointing it at my hand. The only people harmed by "unloaded" guns are those so careless as to point loaded firearms at themselves. There is a very real difference between loaded and unloaded.

When selling guns, I'd always verify that a handgun was unloaded before handing it to the customer by the muzzle. That kept me from sweeping any coworkers or customers. Why was it wrong for me to have the weapon that I'd just verified was unloaded pointed at me during the hand off? Will the gun load itself and shoot me?

 

[ATM]

Why do otherwise seemingly intelligent people point their guns at themselves? Even well healed folks who have touted their firearms knowledge for years? How do they not know the four rules?

Many of them "know" and can even recite the 4 rules yet still think nothing of violating the 3 that actually ensure safety once they convince themselves that the first has been satisfied.

Deep down inside, they still consider rules 2-4 conditional upon 1.

The solution to that issue is quite simple...

 

[bwframe]

They do it because contrary to what some rule says, a gun that is unloaded will not harm you. Criticize me all you want; after removing all ammunition/loaded mags from the area I'm working in and unloading the gun, I'd have no problem with pointing it at my hand. The only people harmed by "unloaded" guns are those so careless as to point loaded firearms at themselves. There is a very real difference between loaded and unloaded.

When selling guns, I'd always verify that a handgun was unloaded before handing it to the customer by the muzzle. That kept me from sweeping any coworkers or customers. Why was it wrong for me to have the weapon that I'd just verified was unloaded pointed at me during the hand off? Will the gun load itself and shoot me?

I may have missed it, but I didn't see any "safety rules" thread anywhere here on the website. I know we have some brand new shooters here, they may appreciate these rules. These are also the rules I used to train my daughter in safe practices.

Jeff Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety​

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET



RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it;e.g. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance.

All guns are always loaded - period!

This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!"​

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)​

Rule III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

Rule III is violated most anytime the uneducated person handles a firearm. Whether on TV, in the theaters, or at the range, people seem fascinated with having their finger on the trigger. Never stand or walk around with your finger on the trigger. It is unprofessional, dangerous, and, perhaps most damaging to the psyche, it is klutzy looking. Never fire a shot unless the sights are superimposed on the target and you have made a conscious decision to fire. Firing an unaligned pistol in a fight gains nothing. If you believe that the defensive pistol is only an intimidation tool - not something to be used - carry blanks, or better yet, reevaluate having one around. If you are going to launch a projectile, it had best be directed purposely. Danger abounds if you allow your finger to dawdle inside the trigger guard. As soon as the sights leave the target, the trigger-finger leaves the trigger and straightens alongside the frame. Since the hand normally prefers to work as a unit - as in grasping - separating the function of the trigger-finger from the rest of the hand takes effort. The five-finger grasp is a deeply programmed reflex. Under sufficient stress, and with the finger already placed on the trigger, an unexpected movement, misstep or surprise could result in a negligent discharge. Speed cannot be gained from such a premature placement of the trigger-finger. Bringing the sights to bear on the target, whether from the holster or the Guard Position, takes more time than that required for moving the trigger finger an inch or so to the trigger.
​

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything you have not positively identified. Be aware of your surroundings, whether on the range or in a fight. Do not assume anything. Know what you are doing.​

SUMMARY:

Make these rules a part of your character. Never compromise them. Improper gunhandling results from ignorance and improper role modeling, such as handling your gun like your favorite actor does. Education can cure this. You can make a difference by following these gunhandling rules and insisting that those around you do the same. Set the example. Who knows what tragedies you, or someone you influence, may prevent?​

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ate-col-jeff-cooper-shooter-trainer-hero.html

 

[Rob377]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ate-col-jeff-cooper-shooter-trainer-hero.html

If I listened to that, I'd never dry fire or do any kind of preventative maintenance. And I'd suck (more) at weapons manipulations and have a dirty gun that never ran. Sad Panda.

 

[bwframe]

Many of them "know" and can even recite the 4 rules yet still think nothing of violating the 3 that actually ensure safety once they convince themselves that the first has been satisfied.

Deep down inside, they still consider rules 2-4 conditional upon 1.

The solution to that issue is quite simple...

The usual semantics.
It'll might matter some day when your 3 rules get adopted to use for training. For now, your argument fuels those who can't seem to wrap themselves around any rules.

 

[danielson]

There is something to that... If you follow those rules by the letter, your firearm could never leave its case. It will ALWAYS be pointed in a possibly bad direction.

 

[ATM]

If I listened to that, I'd never dry fire or do any kind of preventative maintenance. And I'd suck (more) at weapons manipulations and have a dirty gun that never ran. Sad Panda.

You don't have to be unsafe to accomplish those things, just don't pull the trigger with it in an unsafe direction. How difficult is that?

The bang might startle you if it's actually loaded and you didn't expect it, but the hole should be right where you were aiming.

 

[Rob377]

Good to know. Because I heard dry fire will get you killed in the streets anyway.

 

[bwframe]

If I listened to that, I'd never dry fire or do any kind of preventative maintenance. And I'd suck (more) at weapons manipulations and have a dirty gun that never ran. Sad Panda.

Always helpful.

 

[ATM]

The usual semantics.
It'll might matter some day when your 3 rules get adopted to use for training. For now, your argument fuels those who can't seem to wrap themselves around any rules.

My 3 rules are already adopted for training, it's the failed first one which gets used as an excuse to ignore them.

Quit teaching people that old failed "rule", take their excuse away.

Adhering to the remaining 3 will prevent tragedy and leaves zero excuse.

"I didn't think it was loaded..." would get the response, "So what? What does that have to do with safe gun handling?"

Not rocket science, folks. Ditch what has failed.

 

[Rob377]

Always helpful.

I try

 

[snafu21]

Don't our holsters have loaded firearms pointed at our legs or buttocks every single day?

 

[Rob377]

It's fine. I'm totally willing to destroy my legs or buttocks, per rule 2.

 

[ATM]

Don't our holsters have loaded firearms pointed at our legs or buttocks every single day?

That's not gun handling.

From rule 2:

...If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern...

 

[bwframe]

My 3 rules are already adopted for training, it's the failed first one which gets used as an excuse to ignore them.

Quit teaching people that old failed "rule", take their excuse away.

Adhering to the remaining 3 will prevent tragedy and leaves zero excuse.

"I didn't think it was loaded..." would get the response, "So what? What does that have to do with safe gun handling?"

Not rocket science, folks. Ditch what has failed.

Using the four rules has never failed. No one has ever been shot negligently while using them. Arguing against them fuels the fail for those who don't care for rules at all.

Don't our holsters have loaded firearms pointed at our legs or buttocks every single day?

Only if you're doing it wrong.