What's this about badges?

[MickeyBlueEyes]

Semper Fi, Ohh Rah....Blah Blah Blah. 6th award rfile and pistol, 2nd MARDIV R&P Team, Interservice 1000 yrd winning team member, M14 instructor scout sniper school, and Blah, Blah, Blah. I too thought it would be easy, just make sure your eyes are as good as they were and you practice your fundamentals. Go shoot an Appleseed. It can be a very humbling expereince even for us bad ass Marines.

Poor fella, it's Ooh Rah... I can understand. I liked being humbled.

 

[USMC_0311]

Poor fella, it's Ooh Rah... I can understand. I liked being humbled.

You may not be humbled with your experience I wouldn't be surprised. I am just saying don't discount Appleseed because it's ran by civilians on an Army AQT. (Scary I know...lol ) Sounds easy to us Marines but I found out rifle shooting is not like riding a bicycle. I went 20 years after I had been out. I am looking forward to another one this spring. The history lesson is refreshing and I know one Shoot Boss that sings a pretty good Marine Corps Hymn for a Army boy.

Semper Fi Ooh Rah

 

[hooky]

I did my first and only appleseed last summer and couldn't break out of the 190's. Hoping to earn my patch in Atlanta. Next weekend's weather looks good so far.

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

You may not be humbled with your experience I wouldn't be surprised. I am just saying don't discount Appleseed because it's ran by civilians on an Army AQT. (Scary I know...lol ) Sounds easy to us Marines but I found out rifle shooting is not like riding a bicycle. I went 20 years after I had been out. I am looking forward to another one this spring. The history lesson is refreshing and I know one Shoot Boss that sings a pretty good Marine Corps Hymn for a Army boy.

Semper Fi Ooh Rah

I have had a range in my back yard, where ever I lived except in town and I ride my "bicycles" alot. The fundamentals don't fade, when you practice, visualize, and go through the shooting positions. I am glad you enjoyed it. I'm going to go ahead and lay out my Brag Rag: At ten, I shot at the Junior Olympics in free air pistol and got a bronze medal; from 10-14 years old, I was shooting indoor and outdoor smallbore silhouette; I shot beside the Marine Corps Team at Camp Perry my four years of High School, shooting High Power Military matches, bullseye pistol and free pistol till I shipped out for the USMC; I got a 248 out of 250 when I shot the qualifications for my first Expert Badge that my Gunny sent me to Boot with; I was approached by Force Recon at bootcamp and went to sniper school; went and applied my trade in Somalia with Operation Restore Hope; came home and shot at the Division Matches before I went on Leave; Got sent to Quantico and then got stationed with 5th Marines in HQCo, 5th Marine Regiment; Got sent to CADIF/DEA and worked with the Jungle Tamers; I was a weapons custodian that got a cross trained MOS to Armorer; I went to all of our qualifiactions as a shooting coach and armorer; Worked for the USMC in Kosovo in '95; Got Cancer, Got out of my Beloved Marine Corps and then Joined the 1st Civ. Div. I was shooting in a Bullseye pistol league for a while when I got out. Been a life Member in the NRA, Life Member in Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association, Life Member in the Marine Corps League. I love shooting. I shoot like most people drink aclohol, to relax. It's been my obsession for a long time and I have a wife that knows that I don't need to drink or smoke if she lets me shoot.

I feel that if you know how to shoot and you don't practice, you're either broke or dumb. Who is going to protect you when the cops can't get there for 30 minutes?

That's what I got to say about that....

 

[hooky]

I like guns.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I was serious about me being able to learn from you. You have extensive shooting experience and have learned from various teachers and schools.

I would welcome the opportunity to learn from you.

 

[USMC_0311]

I have had a range in my back yard, where ever I lived except in town and I ride my "bicycles" alot. The fundamentals don't fade, when you practice, visualize, and go through the shooting positions. I am glad you enjoyed it. I'm going to go ahead and lay out my Brag Rag: At ten, I shot at the Junior Olympics in free air pistol and got a bronze medal; from 10-14 years old, I was shooting indoor and outdoor smallbore silhouette; I shot beside the Marine Corps Team at Camp Perry my four years of High School, shooting High Power Military matches, bullseye pistol and free pistol till I shipped out for the USMC; I got a 248 out of 250 when I shot the qualifications for my first Expert Badge that my Gunny sent me to Boot with; I was approached by Force Recon at bootcamp and went to sniper school; went and applied my trade in Somalia with Operation Restore Hope; came home and shot at the Division Matches before I went on Leave; Got sent to Quantico and then got stationed with 5th Marines in HQCo, 5th Marine Regiment; Got sent to CADIF/DEA and worked with the Jungle Tamers; I was a weapons custodian that got a cross trained MOS to Armorer; I went to all of our qualifiactions as a shooting coach and armorer; Worked for the USMC in Kosovo in '95; Got Cancer, Got out of my Beloved Marine Corps and then Joined the 1st Civ. Div. I was shooting in a Bullseye pistol league for a while when I got out. Been a life Member in the NRA, Life Member in Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association, Life Member in the Marine Corps League. I love shooting. I shoot like most people drink aclohol, to relax. It's been my obsession for a long time and I have a wife that knows that I don't need to drink or smoke if she lets me shoot.

I feel that if you know how to shoot and you don't practice, you're either broke or dumb. Who is going to protect you when the cops can't get there for 30 minutes?

That's what I got to say about that....

Broke and dumb is about the best way to describe me, you nailed it.

I have come around the last few years and have got back into it. I shoot Bullseye at MCFG and went to Perry the last 2 years. Even got some leg points. Still broke but I manage to shoot 500 rds a month. I would like to shoot with you sometime. MCFG holds a monthly bullseye match starting in April. Thanks for your service and Semper Fi.

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

I like guns.

I Like Big Guns and I cannot lie, big guns, round ones, guns that thugs call gat. I ain't talking about Playboy, cuz Silicone parts is made for toys. I like my toys to be made of steel, blued and stainless, boy that makes cleaning painless. Baby got gat!!!!!!!

 

[ATM]

...I wish that for one moment, the civies that go to the appleseed could look at what's involved in any military branches' marksmanship training and go from there to form their opinion...

Form their opinion of what?

I went through the Army's marksmanship training back in '86 and received only a small fraction of the fundamentals covered at an Appleseed weekend.
Most service members no longer receive the full course of fundamental instruction which was so prevalent in the WWII era training documentaion and films. It was from this era that Appleseed adopted and developed most of its curriculum.

I can't imagine that you would find any fault with an organization passing on the classic best practices of field shooting.

You asked if your experience counts. Sure does. But it doesn't count for near as much if you keep it to yourself.

We're not out to impress each other, we're trying to wake up a nation and pass on some nearly forgotten fundamental skills and heritage.

I do hope that you'll join us and see that it's not primarily about a score or a patch.

 

[threetenbingo]

"...I wish that for one moment, the civies that go to the appleseed could look at what's involved in any military branches' marksmanship training and go from there to form their opinion..."

Not sure what you are talking about. Guy next to me at my last Appleseed was a military trained SDM and he couldn't get above 180, the boss even let him monopod on one to prove a point.

Appleseed seems like it is there to help people. seem to want to help people get over their ego. I have been to two seeds with SPQR and HQ and one with ATM and they were really helpful people and friendly coaches.

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

O.K., this line of comments I made kinda went sideways. Everybody does need to know how to shoot. Where you get the information is not the point, the retention and application of said information about the fundamentals is more important. I'm not really sorry for my coments, so no apology coming. I just wish that the mall ninja tacticool goonies that I met would put the training into perspective. If you can't even gear up for a minor patrol, and readily identify some cover to shoot from, good luck hitting that target.

 

[hawkhavn]

Mickey,

Since your comments regarding Appleseed are based on ignorance of what is covered let me clarify things for you.

Fundamental rifle marksmanship - Yes
Shooting from field positions (Standing, Sitting/Kneeling, Prone) - Yes
How to use your sights, sight adjustments, NPOA, slings, etc. - Yes
Rifle safety - Yes
American Heritage and civic involvement - Yes
Having a great time - Yes

Introductory or Advanced Mall Ninja - No
Patrolling - No
Use of cover - No

HH

 

[yellowhousejake]

If you can't even gear up for a minor patrol, and readily identify some cover to shoot from, good luck hitting that target.

Mmmm, maybe you mistake what we do or who we are. Any good Appleseed instructor would re-phrase your comment like this.

All the gear in the world, coupled with all the cover available, not having a solid foundation of marksmanship skills, good luck hitting anything.

But the instruction I am most proud of, the target I brag about, is this one. It says more about what we are about that anything else.

If you think we are not saving a country, think again.

She can teach you the six steps to firing aimed accurate shots as well, and owns her own Garand to boot.

YHJ

 

[threetenbingo]

Marksmanship Matters

A Rifleman's War | Small Wars Journal

Fort Drum - The Mountaineer Online

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ing_military_fort_stewart_ga_oct_5_9_aar.html

Massad Ayoob » Blog Archive » APPLESEED

Some people seem to think Appleseed has something going here, apparently the United States military and Mass Ayoob are among them.

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

Mickey,

Since your comments regarding Appleseed are based on ignorance of what is covered let me clarify things for you.

Fundamental rifle marksmanship - Yes
Shooting from field positions (Standing, Sitting/Kneeling, Prone) - Yes
How to use your sights, sight adjustments, NPOA, slings, etc. - Yes
Rifle safety - Yes
American Heritage and civic involvement - Yes
Having a great time - Yes

Introductory or Advanced Mall Ninja - No
Patrolling - No
Use of cover - No

HH

I guess there was quite a bit of overlap there and my predelections do not come from ignorance. Start where I started, read what I typed and go from there.

I started out in a simple club, shot some big pistol and rifle matches and got some medals, missed out on the patches. went to the Marines, and shot some events and some humans, then became a civilian. GOt some Medals and Ribbons, still no patches. But My ignorance is only from the view I was presented when one of my trainees came back from an appleseed and thought he knew more than a marksmanship instructor, and some prior service guys that he didn't want to pay attention to when he was floundering before he didn't get his patch after three events. He didn't even get your patch, but he was trying to sound so sage around a bunch of guys that knew his beginnings.

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

bummer

+1, for all the Civies... Does 6 years of Expert Badges for Rifle and Pistol in the Marine Corps Count, or the armies 300 yards or less shooting count for something? I feel that going to the Sniper Instructor Course in Quantico, VA should also do for something on prowess, but alot of people don't think I know how to shoot either, before I even shot with them. I was having a guy that refused to even read a 6 page fundamentals of marksmanship I typed up, try and give a bunch of prior military guys some shooting advice. It gets very tiresome. I tried teaching that guy, alot of different things, but he was resisitant to the actual development of training something into muscle memory. I tried to teach him about magazine placement and positioning on your gear, such as facing out or in and facing up or down depending on which hand has to grab that magazine. 45 minutes later, he was fed up with the drill. Guess I know how long he would've lasted in the military.

I understand the Ideas that founded our Country, that's why I joined the Marines.
I wish that for one moment, the civies that go to the appleseed could look at what's involved in any military branches' marksmanship training and go from there to form their opinion.

I've even shot the possible score of 25/25 for the prison since they send me for tower training ever since I started. Every Year, since 2003.

Badges, We Don't Need No Stinking Badges.....

Here's my O.P. Pal, it might make it easier to relate to if you go from page two and then back to the other pages. have a good one. My original angst was about an appleseed sojourner and 4th or 5th fail to get a patch guy that stopped coming around because he couldn't gleen the information we were giving him in my neighborhood readiness group.

 

[ATM]

Here's my O.P. Pal, it might make it easier to relate to if you go from page two and then back to the other pages. have a good one. My original angst was about an appleseed sojourner and 4th or 5th fail to get a patch guy that stopped coming around because he couldn't gleen the information we were giving him in my neighborhood readiness group.

Even after re-reading your posts, it was not very clear that they somehow revolved around the attitude of this one person who had attended an Appleseed in the past.

He probably didn't have a teachable attitude there, either.

You should still check it out. It's a great program.