What's a straw sale?

[j. villarreal]

I was talking to my boss today about buying firearms and we got on the subject of straw sales. He told me that it was illegal to buy a gun with the intent of giving it to someone else. He said you couldn't even buy a gun with the intent of giving it as a gift to a legal family member. I thought it was only illegal to buy guns for someone who could not otherwise legally own them.

So, does the straw sale law apply to all third parties or just those that can't legally own firearms?

Jason

 

[rockhopper46038]

Well, a "straw" sale more properly is meant to refer to a gun purchased by someone with the INTENT to resell the gun to someone else who would otherwise be unable to purchase the gun for themselves.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Gifts are fine, as long as you believe the person is allowed to own a firearm.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Well, a "straw" sale more properly is meant to refer to a gun purchased by someone with the INTENT to resell the gun to someone else who would otherwise be unable to purchase the gun for themselves.

In a nut-shell, this.


-J-

 

[JetGirl]

RockHopper has it right.
Straw sales are made with the intent to put the gun in the hands of a person who could not LEGALLY purchase for themselves...for whatever reason (age, record, location, etc.)

 

[leftsock]

RockHopper has it right.
Straw sales are made with the intent to put the gun in the hands of a person who could not LEGALLY purchase for themselves...for whatever reason (age, record, location, etc.)

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought I had read that persons under 21 but over 18 couldn't purchase a handgun from an FFL, but could own one if given to them or purchased through a person-to-person sale?

 

[JetGirl]

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought I had read that persons under 21 couldn't purchase a handgun from an FFL, but could own one if given to them or purchased through a person-to-person sale?

I'm not really referring to gifting...I'm talking about getting someone to do something for you with your money, because you legally can't. Gray area, for sure. Ish.
And as for FTF, I thought the age laws were still applicable re; under 21 handgun sales... no?

 

[Mr. Habib]

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought I had read that persons under 21 but over 18 couldn't purchase a handgun from an FFL, but could own one if given to them or purchased through a person-to-person sale?

You're correct. A person may own a handgun if they are over 18. they just can't buy it from an FFL. You can also get your LTCH at age 18, in IN.

 

[kludge]

Regarding gifts, straight from the BATF...

Carla: What if a customer who qualifies to own a gun buys a firearm as a gift for someone else?

Mr. Lucas: The same rules apply. A transaction is legal as long as the person who fills out form 4473 does so truthfully and completes it as the actual purchaser. In that particular situation, we usually like to make sure they are aware of the rules associated with ATF I 5300.2. Again, you should feel comfortable denying the purchase if you think the customer is being dishonest in any way.

ATF Online - Training - Firearms - Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide Learning Theater - Straw Purchase Attempt Transcript

 

[loony1]

You're correct. A person may own a handgun if they are over 18. they just can't buy it from an FFL. You can also get your LTCH at age 18, in IN.

This was my story, got my LCTH when I turned 18 and dad gave me a 1911

 

[CarmelHP]

Straw sale- standing in for the actual purchaser. "A" is the actual purchaser, but, for whatever reason, cannot make the purchase, so he has "B" stand in for him with the intent that "A" is the actual recipient.

Unlicensed dealing- purchasing with the intent to resell.

Gift- Purchase with the intent to make a bona fide gift of a firearm to a qualified recipient- perfectly legal.

FTF sale to under 21- Perfectly legal to sell your own handgun to a person 18 to 21 who is otherwise eligible to receive it under state law. What is not legal is straw sale (above) by standing in for that person in a FFL purchase transaction.

 

[JetGirl]

Straw sale- standing in for the actual purchaser. "A" is the actual purchaser, but, for whatever reason, cannot make the purchase, so he has "B" stand in for him with the intent that "A" is the actual recipient.

Unlicensed dealing- purchasing with the intent to resell.

Gift- Purchase with the intent to make a bona fide gift of a firearm to a qualified recipient- perfectly legal.

FTF sale to under 21- Perfectly legal to sell your own handgun to a person 18 to 21 who is otherwise eligible to receive it under state law. What is not legal is straw sale (above) by standing in for that person in a FFL purchase transaction.

Thanks. Repped

 

[natetheace]

So the way I understand it, I can give my 18 yr old son a pistol legally. But, if my 18 yr old son gave me his own money to go purchase a pistol for him, this would be an illegal straw sale?
Sounds like I'll have to give him one for his 18th birthday!

 

[JSeroka]

So the way I understand it, I can give my 18 yr old son a pistol legally. But, if my 18 yr old son gave me his own money to go purchase a pistol for him, this would be an illegal straw sale?
Sounds like I'll have to give him one for his 18th birthday!

That is correct, just because they can not purchase it from a FFL Dealer on their own. Now single person to single person sales are different. But all gun stores "should" be FFL dealers and must follow the federal rules on this.

 

[CarmelHP]

So the way I understand it, I can give my 18 yr old son a pistol legally. But, if my 18 yr old son gave me his own money to go purchase a pistol for him, this would be an illegal straw sale?
Sounds like I'll have to give him one for his 18th birthday!

Precisely.

 

[chrisheacock]

Just to be completely clear, according to the ATF, any purchase with the intent to resale to another party is a straw purchase. Their ability to purchase/own the firearm is irrelevant.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...762-buying_a_handgun_with_a_police_buddy.html

 

[CampingJosh]

Just to be completely clear, according to the ATF, any purchase with the intent to resale to another party is a straw purchase. Their ability to purchase/own the firearm is irrelevant.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...762-buying_a_handgun_with_a_police_buddy.html

Purchase with the intent to resell is not a straw purchase. Purchasing for someone else is a straw purchase. There is a difference.

I have had instances where I found a deal that was too good to pass up even though I didn't really want that particular gun. I bought it knowing that I would most likely trade it off or sell it for something else I wanted. But I was purchasing it for me in order to improve my collection. I don't make a business of it, so I'm not operating as an unlicensed dealer.

However, if a man purchases a firearm for someone else (i.e., he is acting on another person's behalf), then that is a straw purchase.

 

[Blind Squirrel]

Call Don's, they can fill you in on exactly how to conduct a straw sale.

 

[mainjet]

I watched this in person at Cabelas. There was a guy and a lady there buying a gun. The lady was buying it but the guy had accidently slipped and told the counter guy it was for him. That got the counter guy now needing his information. Then their story changed and the guy said it was for her but he was just picking it out.

The counter guy was good about it and was going to let her fill out the papers but it was very obvious that it was a straw sale. He couldn't own one so he got his wife or girlfriend to do the paperwork in her name to get the gun.

If it was me I would have said hey, I am not comfortable with what I am seeing and hearing so I am not going to sell you this gun.

Years ago I had my FFL for my own use and purchases to close friends and family (back when it was easier to get your FFL). I would never sell someone a gun if I did not feel comfortable about what was going down.

 

[JetGirl]

The counter guy was good about it and was going to let her fill out the papers but it was very obvious that it was a straw sale. He couldn't own one so he got his wife or girlfriend to do the paperwork in her name to get the gun.

The "counter guy" was not "good" about anything but potentially getting his boss's FFL license revoked.
That's the stuff that losing a license is made out of!