What to do during a traffic stop.

[jedi]

To the OP thanks for the advise.
The advise I was giving when stationed at Great Lakes Naval Base was similar to yours.

1) Pull over to the right as far as possible
2) If you can have your license, car registration, insurance and gun permit in hand
3) Roll down your windows (all of them) and turn on the inside light
4) Put your hands outside the window door (with papers in hand if you have them otherwise with your fingers spread)
5) Wait for the officer and greet them "Hello Sir/Mam"

Being of "color" (any color other than white: ie black, latino, asian, etc..) it was best if you did not give the approaching LEO any type of "perceived" threat. The mere fact that we were of "color" was enough of a threat.

Note this training was to get us ready for our work in the south.

Also

since it looks like some LEO bashing is already occurring here.

 

[fpdshooter]

If you are so rude as to ask a second time, I will be less than polite, and hope you do something stupid for my audio and video recordings like pull me out of the car despite having no reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed. And exercising my rights most assuredly does not meet the legal test for establishing such suspicion. I am polite and appreciate police officers, until they start abusing their badge and fail to respect our Constitutional rights.

Well then, I guess I'm glad that SCOTUS has clearly said that LE does not need reasonable suspicion to have a driver step out of the car.

You know, I had a long response typed out. But honestly it just isn't worth it anymore. I love it when people act all tough on the errornet and thump their chest about what they will and won't do.

Guys, I hate to rain on your parade, but if you don't give a direct answer to a direct question, several things will happen. If I ask about guns and you say yes, then I'm going to check your license and you will be on your way after I conduct my business related to the reason for the stop.

If you start giving evasive answers to a direct question (I have nothing illegal...) then your actions are going to prolong the stop. I would be derelict in my duties if I just shrugged my shoulders and thought "ok, this guys says he has nothing illegal, he must be a ok!" If I ask you if you have a gun and you don't respond (ie: the silent treatment) or give me a BS answer, then I am going to call for back up and ask you to exit the vehicle (yes, I have that right per the Supreme Court w/o any kind of resonable suspicion, or better yet, your evasiveness just gave me the resonable suspicion based on my years as a LE).

Your actions, or words in this case, is going to prolong the stop. I will run your drivers license, I will run warrant checks, and based on my experiences as an LE that people tend to lie to the PoPo when they are trying to conceal something, like a gun, and when I asked you specifically about it you gave vague answers, then that gives me resoanble suspicion to believe that crime is afoot (think Terry here)...that gives me enough to pat you down. When I feel your gun, what do you think is going to happen?!

Since I asked you directly about weapons and you said you have nothing illegal but you made no mention about guns, as soon as I feel yours, you are going to get detained at best, and probably more likely I am going to screw a gun in your ear and gently tell you that if you make any movements that I will spit your head open like a canoe.


Guys, this is a big picture type of thing here. If you don't want to voluntarily tell me you are carrying, hey man that's cool with me. If I don't ask then you don't have to say anything, I really don't care.


But for the love of God, if you are asked a direct question by an LE about guns, please answer directly with a simple yes or no!!!!! Don't be a fool.


These are just a simple road cops perspective. This is just my opinion. But this is also how it gets handled on the road. Tell or don't tell? That is your personal choice, but do not ever lie to an LE, give vague or evasive answers, or give us the silent treatment. It will make both of our lives a lot more irrating than it has to be.

 

[Jackson]

I don't understand taking the gun off of the person with a LTCH. If a person intends to start a gunfight with the officer, he will probably not hand over the gun. If he is considering a gunfight but not sure yet, he'll probably lie about having the gun.

I'm not a police officer, I'm in no position to criticize and I don't want to start an argument. It's just my thoughts.

As for whether to inform at a traffic stop, I like to keep things focused on the purpose of the stop.

 

[Joe Williams]

Well then, I guess I'm glad that SCOTUS has clearly said that LE does not need reasonable suspicion to have a driver step out of the car.

Irrelevant. Cops who think like the garbage in your post are why we can't trust cops. Too many think their badge gives them free reign to punish those who exercise their rights. Win or lose in court is utterly irrelevant to me, try your crap with me, you'll be in court for years defending your thuggish anti-American tactics, while I just keep scoring political points to weaken the damage tactics you advocate are doing to the Constitution. Especially if you are so ignorant as to "stick a gun in my ear" simply for exercising my rights. Court would be merely another way to generate attention to the cause and spread the word. Heck, remember how fired up folks got over a kids toy, with family's names, addresses, and phone numbers spread all over the internet? One can have a lot of fun nowadays, and the court case becomes just a side show.

You may not need suspicion to pull me out of the car, but you do to detain, and you'll have a ball claiming in that I wasn't detained simply because I chose to exercise my rights under the Constitution.

 

[fpdshooter]

As soon as I stop you for the traffic infraction you committed, you have been detained. SCOTUS has long held that removing the driver or a passenger during the stop is a no more intrusive detention.

Joe - you crack me up, really dude.

 

[fpdshooter]

Joe - with you it all comes down to name calling. I give you specifics, and the best you can come up with is the very tired "thuggish" and "anti-American"

Really dude, Really?

 

[public servant]

Doesn't this same discussion come up three times a week?



IBTL

 

[Joe Williams]

Joe - with you it all comes down to name calling. I give you specifics, and the best you can come up with is the very tired "thuggish" and "anti-American"

Really dude, Really?

Really? You are really going to play the victim, after clearly stating that you think you have the right to assault American citizens, to stick guns in their ears, to split their heads open, because they choose to exerice their Constitutional rights?

You really are the reason we have to even wonder about conversations like these. If it weren't for people who threaten their fellow citizens with deadly force because we choose not to answer questions the law says we don't have to, nobody would have a problem letting the rest of the good cops know we are carrying. Nobody would have to care about protecting our rights. Because cops would be catching criminals, not acting like them.

 

[fpdshooter]

Pump your brakes there Turbo! This is in direct response to your post about not telling the officer you are carry a gun when directly asked by an officer!

My response posted is what will happen when you give evasive answers to questions, you are removed from your vehicle, you are patted down, and the officer finds the gun on you that you specifically did not tell him about!

 

[fpdshooter]

You want to try to play the games? Fine, don't tell officers about the gun. But don't you dare cry foul when they find it and act accordingly.

It all can be avoided if you simply give an direct answer to the question of you are carrying a gun! Just show them the silly pink card! That is all you have to do.

 

[infidel]

Joe, just make them happy and stop acting like you have "rights". If you don't have anything to hide, whats the problem?

 

[JohnP82]

Thanks to the OP and all the other LEO that responded. It is good to get an officer's point of view on this topic. Unfortunately no matter what approach is taken it seems like somebody will not be happy. Truth is officer's put their lives at risk everyday to keep us safe and I have no problem following their rules. Yes, I agree I do not think it is necessary to have to hand over my weapon during a traffic stop as I think it can be unsafe, but if the officer requests that then that is the way it is. Just because we have a LTCH in our wallet does not mean we did not commit a felony two months ago. Our LTCH could have been revoked and we will still have the piece of paper with us right? So to me the officer can't just see the license and think all is well. Also there are plenty of LTCH holders that do dumb things. I know that I am a good person, but the officer does not know that. Sorry to go on and on, but I just think the officers go through enough every day that they do not need attitude from us about this. If we have the license then all should go well. Just my

 

[H.T.]

I have been pulled over a couple times I have never had any problems with the LE..They treat me fair even though I have a IAFF sticker in the back window,lol. Also I usualy tell the officer that I have a side arm and permit.
I guess being a fireman and working with IPD on a regular bases I'm more relaxed around LE. By the way Fpdshooter, I live in Fishers..Haven't been pulled over by FPD yet..I promise to work on this,lol.

God Bless & keep you.

 

[fpdshooter]

Joe, just make them happy and stop acting like you have "rights". If you don't have anything to hide, whats the problem?

Well since nothing in my posts have anything to do with violating anyone's rights, then I guess we are in agreement.

Thank you for your support, sir.

 

[fpdshooter]

I have been pulled over a couple times I have never had any problems with the LE..They treat me fair even though I have a IAFF sticker in the back window,lol. Also I usualy tell the officer that I have a side arm and permit.
I guess being a fireman and working with IPD on a regular bases I'm more relaxed around LE. By the way Fpdshooter, I live in Fishers..Haven't been pulled over by FPD yet..I promise to work on this,lol.

God Bless & keep you.

Great.....another Hoser!

Believe it or not, we have an excellent relationship with our FD. We have a pretty much joint Dive Team, and I know most of the guys on a frist name basis. It is a shame some of the other agancies tend to fight like brothers, at least until thay have a common target. Then watch out!

 

[Jackson]

If you start giving evasive answers to a direct question (I have nothing illegal...) then your actions are going to prolong the stop. I would be derelict in my duties if I just shrugged my shoulders and thought "ok, this guys says he has nothing illegal, he must be a ok!" If I ask you if you have a gun and you don't respond (ie: the silent treatment) or give me a BS answer, then I am going to call for back up and ask you to exit the vehicle

At the risk of seeming like I'm ganging up on you here (which is certainly not my intention)... What you're saying is that a person really doesn't have the option of not answering questions at a traffic stop without risking being removed from the car and searched?

Again, I'm not trying to gang up on you here and I'm not in agreement with Joe's attitude. But if I wanted to politely tell an officer that "I don't want to answer any questions and I'd like my ticket please", is the above response what I can expect?

 

[jsharmon7]

Yes, I agree I do not think it is necessary to have to hand over my weapon during a traffic stop as I think it can be unsafe, but if the officer requests that then that is the way it is.

Not that I particularly LIKE the idea of someone handling/unloading my gun, but does anyone know of someone being accidentally shot by an officer who took possession of their firearm during a stop? This reasoning comes up a lot in response to this issue, but can anyone point me to a link/instance of this actually happening?

EDIT: I don't mean this personally to you JohnP82, I've been wondering this for a while and you're post just happened to remind me to ask it. Sorry!

 

[fpdshooter]

Jackson - Nope, absolutely not.

There is a huge difference between answering directly vs answering with evasive lines.

Your statement is a direct answer to a question. Joe's is not.


In you situation, I would still ask for a back up unit. Once the other unit got there I would re-approach the car to ask a few more questions. If you still didn't want to answer, hey man, that's fine. I will not go into OPSEC about how or why I do certain things, but it has a reason.

Bear in mind that the driver's attitude and state of being have a lot to do with whether they get a verbal warning or a $150 ticket. You want to argue? Enjoy your ticket. You treat me like a professional, have a nice day, enjoy the extra $150 still in your wallet!

 

[KDUBCR250]

IBTL

 

[dustjunky2000]

Since I asked you directly about weapons and you said you have nothing illegal but you made no mention about guns, as soon as I feel yours, you are going to get detained at best, and probably more likely I am going to screw a gun in your ear and gently tell you that if you make any movements that I will spit your head open like a canoe.

Bet it feels good to say that to some scared, smart-mouthed punk, doesn't it? Exercisin' those 'rights' of his...the nerve. Who does he think he is, some big-shot lawyer or something? If you ask him a question, and he doesn't answer, then intimidation and the graphic threat of lethal force is the only option I suppose.

Gee, and I thought Greenfield cops were Nazis. Glad I don't live in Fishers.

NB4TL