What if Texas’s grid wasn’t independent?

[DoggyDaddy]

It was all over the news for a week prior. I just don't think most people believed it.

That's what I figured. The woman they interviewed struck me as the type that probably had her nose buried in her social media and not paying attention to the news.

 

[ditcherman]

United States Power Outage Map

PowerOutage.us tracks, records, and aggregates power outages across the United States.

poweroutage.us

Here is a pretty neat interactive map showing outages, you can select a state and even county level.
I learned there are 499 people served by Boone REMC in Hamilton county (I’m one).
Lots of info.

 

[rooster]

Electricity is a "just in time" product.

The battery arrays being installed at large scale like the one at IPL Harding STreet are to combat that exact problem.

the next part I’m about to say has absolutely no proof or knowledge of the system just my own musings

One would assume with the new “smart” meters we all have installed on our homes that in the event of grid collapse due to whatever reason that the power company could route that power in a “smart” way to keep essential services online. I highly doubt that those battery arrays are just gonna vomit all their power onto the grid and be dead in 6 hrs ( or whatever short timespan they may last)

 

[phylodog]

The gal was saying that "nobody was warned about this storm."

In other words "No one did my thinking for me and told me what to do".

 

[Jaybird1980]

The battery arrays being installed at large scale like the one at IPL Harding STreet are to combat that exact problem.

the next part I’m about to say has absolutely no proof or knowledge of the system just my own musings

One would assume with the new “smart” meters we all have installed on our homes that in the event of grid collapse due to whatever reason that the power company could route that power in a “smart” way to keep essential services online. I highly doubt that those battery arrays are just gonna vomit all their power onto the grid and be dead in 6 hrs ( or whatever short timespan they may last)

I am interested in the battery array you guys have, what's the size, capacity, build time, and expected service life. I know they have to start getting these thing in service soon, but I don't think it's going to be anywhere near enough capacity and discharge time.

The meters Nipsco upgraded to are not really smart meters. They just have a battery powered radio signal that they still have to be in the vicinity to read. Both electric and gas

 

[OZZY.40]

I am interested in the battery array you guys have, what's the size, capacity, build time, and expected service life. I know they have to start getting these thing in service soon, but I don't think it's going to be anywhere near enough capacity and discharge time.

The meters Nipsco upgraded to are not really smart meters. They just have a battery powered radio signal that they still have to be in the vicinity to read. Both electric and gas

The battery arrays being installed at large scale like the one at IPL Harding STreet are to combat that exact problem.

the next part I’m about to say has absolutely no proof or knowledge of the system just my own musings

One would assume with the new “smart” meters we all have installed on our homes that in the event of grid collapse due to whatever reason that the power company could route that power in a “smart” way to keep essential services online. I highly doubt that those battery arrays are just gonna vomit all their power onto the grid and be dead in 6 hrs ( or whatever short timespan they may last)

The one battery station I know about has a 3 hour out put and it holds around 25MW. That means it will push out 25MW in one hour, but can be stretched out for 3 hours at a reduced rate. From a grid operator’s position, a battery is best utilized during peak times like in the morning when many businesses are starting up or in the late afternoon when everyone is getting home.

 

[BugI02]

Cynical bastard that I have become, I think one of the competing narratives - the one that blames the independent Texas grid, is likely driven by a desire by the PTB to capture one more thing not in their direct control

 

[Jaybird1980]

The one battery station I know about has a 3 hour out put and it holds around 25MW. That means it will push out 25MW in one hour, but can be stretched out for 3 hours at a reduced rate. From a grid operator’s position, a battery is best utilized during peak times like in the morning when many businesses are starting up or in the late afternoon when everyone is getting home.

Ooh, that is nowhere near what I was hoping for, would like to know size and service life of this. Does it have it's own transformer setup or is this at a plant with a switch yard?

 

[rooster]

I am interested in the battery array you guys have, what's the size, capacity, build time, and expected service life. I know they have to start getting these thing in service soon, but I don't think it's going to be anywhere near enough capacity and discharge time.

The meters Nipsco upgraded to are not really smart meters. They just have a battery powered radio signal that they still have to be in the vicinity to read. Both electric and gas

I honestly have no idea on any of the details of that battery array. I was working other projects and sites when that went it. Would like to know details myself. The tech is surely already super out of date compared to the battery density my Tesla has.

 

[OZZY.40]

One thing to keep in mind is that it takes a LOT of work to get power from the generator to your breaker box and maintain a voltage of 120/240 with a frequency of 60Hz. During times of extremely high demand, +100 degrees or in this case -5, demand for power is at its highest and every piece of equipment that helps keep electricity within spec is working near its maximum limits. The grid is robust enough to with stand a few of those pieces breaking or freezing up, but Texas has far exceeded a few pieces, and to keep electricity within spec, the demand (customers) must be reduced to keep the power within limits. The grid cannot operate outside of those specs: if frequency drops to roughly 57hz, then it could destroy steam turbines; if voltages gets low, then amperages start to rise which will cause transformers to overheat. Having power grids connected like we do, allows other power companies to help each other when one has a problem. However; if the problem is large enough, it could bring down all those connected. This is one of the main reasons we are not AC tied with Texas, if a problem happens in Texas, then it doesn’t cascade and blackout the entire country.

Another item I’ve seen in the news is hospitals being without power. The power companies know which circuits feed hospitals and these circuits have priority over everything else. If grid operators can get power to hospitals, they will!

Grid operators train a lot, and undergo continuous training over the course of their career. Some of that training is for problems like this so they know what it takes to keep electricity within spec while doing everything they can to get that power to everyone they possibly can.

People look at the power outputs of fossil fuels vs green energy and believe they are identical when in fact they’re not. At the high voltage level, green energy is terrible at supporting voltage and frequency. Green energy is best suited to reduce fossil fuel consumption when it is available, but it is not a dependable source of power as we are witnessing in Texas.

 

[phylodog]

People look at the power outputs of fossil fuels vs green energy and believe they are identical when in fact they’re not. At the high voltage level, green energy is terrible at supporting voltage and frequency. Green energy is best suited to reduce fossil fuel consumption when it is available, but it is not a dependable source of power as we are witnessing in Texas.

Reality no longer matters once they've decided on a fairy tale they would like to chase.

 

[drillsgt]

I don't know anything about this industry so I appreciate the insight.

 

[rooster]

One thing to keep in mind is that it takes a LOT of work to get power from the generator to your breaker box and maintain a voltage of 120/240 with a frequency of 60Hz. During times of extremely high demand, +100 degrees or in this case -5, demand for power is at its highest and every piece of equipment that helps keep electricity within spec is working near its maximum limits. The grid is robust enough to with stand a few of those pieces breaking or freezing up, but Texas has far exceeded a few pieces, and to keep electricity within spec, the demand (customers) must be reduced to keep the power within limits. The grid cannot operate outside of those specs: if frequency drops to roughly 57hz, then it could destroy steam turbines; if voltages gets low, then amperages start to rise which will cause transformers to overheat. Having power grids connected like we do, allows other power companies to help each other when one has a problem. However; if the problem is large enough, it could bring down all those connected. This is one of the main reasons we are not AC tied with Texas, if a problem happens in Texas, then it doesn’t cascade and blackout the entire country.

Another item I’ve seen in the news is hospitals being without power. The power companies know which circuits feed hospitals and these circuits have priority over everything else. If grid operators can get power to hospitals, they will!

Grid operators train a lot, and undergo continuous training over the course of their career. Some of that training is for problems like this so they know what it takes to keep electricity within spec while doing everything they can to get that power to everyone they possibly can.

People look at the power outputs of fossil fuels vs green energy and believe they are identical when in fact they’re not. At the high voltage level, green energy is terrible at supporting voltage and frequency. Green energy is best suited to reduce fossil fuel consumption when it is available, but it is not a dependable source of power as we are witnessing in Texas.

Thank you for your insights

 

[Jaybird1980]

Like Ozzy said, People don't understand how much is actually involved. They want to compare numbers on paper, never understanding the peaks and valleys, and demand industrialization, or even how much a pandemic changes the dynamics involved.

People are more than willing to just assume that electric will be available to them when needed.
What's the old saying, You won't miss it until it's gone.

 

[phylodog]

Like Ozzy said, People don't understand how much is actually involved. They want to compare numbers on paper, never understanding the peaks and valleys, and demand industrialization, or even how much a pandemic changes the dynamics involved.

People are more than willing to just assume that electric will be available to them when needed.
What's the old saying, You won't miss it until it's gone.

Our society has been convinced (thanks to television, movies and the internet) that most everyone knows enough about everything to hold a valid and informed opinion regardless of the topic.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Part of the problem is that this time of year is typically "quiet" for them as far as power generation goes. AC use is WAY down so they use the winter months to take plants offline for maintenance. So lots of generation offline because they shouldnt have needed that much power this time of year. (because most of that power is used for AC use)

So those downed generation plants that couldnt come on line was part of the problem.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Tru

Part of the problem is that this time of year is typically "quiet" for them as far as power generation goes. AC use is WAY down so they use the winter months to take plants offline for maintenance. So lots of generation offline because they shouldnt have needed that much power this time of year. (because most of that power is used for AC use)

So those downed generation plants that couldnt come on line was part of the problem.

This is true. Our lowest usage days are Christmas through New Years. This it right in Texas low output time when all the AC's are off. And usually people are using minimal heat.

 

[IndyIN]

For those interested, this article has decent information about the DC ties to the Eastern grid and Mexico. I have an electrical engineering degree, but this is not my area of expertise... so take the article as just a reference.

VERIFY: Does Texas have an independent power grid, and what does that mean?

People have begun to focus on Texas' independent power grid amidst rolling power outages in response to the state's grid failing to meet the demand.

www.wusa9.com

"On a Wednesday media call, ERCOT said 800 MW (megawatts) per day can be transferred through connections to the eastern grid and 400 MW per day can be transferred through the Mexican grid. That's not nearly enough to make up for Texas's current deficit in power."

 

[OZZY.40]

For those interested, this article has decent information about the DC ties to the Eastern grid and Mexico. I have an electrical engineering degree, but this is not my area of expertise... so take the article as just a reference.

VERIFY: Does Texas have an independent power grid, and what does that mean?

People have begun to focus on Texas' independent power grid amidst rolling power outages in response to the state's grid failing to meet the demand.

www.wusa9.com

"On a Wednesday media call, ERCOT said 800 MW (megawatts) per day can be transferred through connections to the eastern grid and 400 MW per day can be transferred through the Mexican grid. That's not nearly enough to make up for Texas's current deficit in power."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_–_New_England_Transmission

This DC tie line moves 2,000MW from Quebec to Boston. I read another article where there were plans to build a dc line from Turkmenistan to Pakistan which would go across Afghanistan, but politics killed those plans.

Benefits of High-Voltage Direct Current Transmission Systems

High-voltage direct current (HVDC) technology offers more efficient bulk power transfer over long distances compared to alternating current (AC) systems.

www.powermag.com

This is a good article to help explain high voltage dc. It’s all about money. If someone can make money with it, then they will do it!

 

[OZZY.40]

Coal Retirements Have ERCOT Power Prices Soaring - America's Power

This past August, a heat wave across Texas led to record levels of electricity demand in the state, along with record-setting power prices. The worst of it came on August 13, when power prices reached the market price cap of $9,000 per megawatt-hour (MWh), roughly three hundred times higher than...

www.americaspower.org

This is from 2019, I believe this problem has been brewing for some time.