What constitutes a pistol?

[Redacted]

I was recently at my LGS picking up some magazines and such. I was waiting for the guy to get off of the phone standing around by the counter. There was a guy ooglin' some AR platform and talking to the guy behind the counter about accessories. I heard the employee say something like "It's a pistol so you cant get forward grips for it." When I looked at it, everything seemed like a regular AR platform. I believe I even heard it was chambered in .223. So what am I not aware of here? Call me naïve or whatever, but what constitutes a pistol?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I was recently at my LGS picking up some magazines and such. I was waiting for the guy to get off of the phone standing around by the counter. There was a guy ooglin' some AR platform and talking to the guy behind the counter about accessories. I heard the employee say something like "It's a pistol so you cant get forward grips for it." When I looked at it, everything seemed like a regular AR platform. I believe I even heard it was chambered in .223. So what am I not aware of here? Call me naïve or whatever, but what constitutes a pistol?

Generally speaking - the presense/absense of a shoulder stock.

Pistols are designed to be fired with one hand.

Things get murky when the overall length of the pistol goes beyond 26", I believe. There's a weird "tweener" category of "firearm" that's neither pistol nor rifle nor AOW. Those suckers you CAN put a vertical fore grip (VFG) on and be OK.

Want to know what's even more weird? You CAN put an Angled Fore Grip (AFG) on a pistol and be OK. You can even put a bipod on and hold/use it like a VFG.

Clear as mud?

 

[Redacted]

Generally speaking - the presense/absense of a shoulder stock.

Pistols are designed to be fired with one hand.

Things get murky when the overall length of the pistol goes beyond 26", I believe. There's a weird "tweener" category of "firearm" that's neither pistol nor rifle nor AOW. Those suckers you CAN put a vertical fore grip (VFG) on and be OK.

Want to know what's even more weird? You CAN put an Angled Fore Grip (AFG) on a pistol and be OK. You can even put a bipod on and hold/use it like a VFG.

Clear as mud?

Sounds black & white to me.
What would the benefit be of it being labeled "pistol" instead of "long gun"? Regulation?

 

[Bigtanker]

If it's chambered for a big enough cartridge, you can hunt with it in Indiana.Kind of a poor man's SBR.

 

[Lammchop93]

Sounds black & white to me.
What would the benefit be of it being labeled "pistol" instead of "long gun"? Regulation?

With a "pistol" AR, you can have as short of a barrel as you want. When it's a rifle, it can't be less than 16" unless you want to deal with all the Class III hassle.

 

[M67]

Sig PSB

And if the oal is over 26" you can put a vfg on it, it's still a pistol but it becomes a firearm and not deemed concealable like a pistol

 

[Redacted]

With a "pistol" AR, you can have as short of a barrel as you want. When it's a rifle, it can't be less than 16" unless you want to deal with all the Class III hassle.

That makes sense. It would just be a pistol you could hip-fire.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Men are visual. See if this helps. I can go into the statutes and letter rulings if you so desire.

NFA Rules on Pistols, PDWs, AOWs, and SBRs | EmptorMaven

 

[sj kahr k40]

Is there a maximum or minimum angle for it to be an AFG? Would it still be a pistol if the AFG was angled at 89 degrees instead of 90 degree?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

sj, to date, the angle of the Magpul AFG. (That's who asked).

This gosh darn iPad won't let me link to the &%$#@*& ATFE letter on the Magpul AFG. Can someone get it for me please?

 

[sj kahr k40]

Thanks

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I'm not sure the info contained on that graphic is correct.

Yes, the pistol shown with the VFG is now automagically an "AOW". But it's a $200 tax stamp for the manufacture of such. It's only $5 tax stamp if you TRANSFER an already manufactured AOW (like buying a Serbu / Keg to you from a gun shop).

-J-

 

[Redacted]

Men are visual. See if this helps. I can go into the statutes and letter rulings if you so desire.

NFA Rules on Pistols, PDWs, AOWs, and SBRs | EmptorMaven

Thanks for that.

 

[Hop]

Good picture but it would be even better with one more ">26" pistol with a VFG". As mentioned by Indy guy upthread. ATF and their silly rules

 

[Bfish]

Does a sig brace measure into overall length? And are title two weapons free to cross state lines without prior consent unlike an SBR? I have been wanting a pap pistol with a sig brace for awhile! I have even seen guys are legally putting pistol buffer tubes on them and while it serves no purpose you can then have it be folding with the brace. But no VFG unless it counts into overall length or you send in with your $5... I am contemplating. I want a pistol not an SBR so I can move across state lines freely with it due to where I live and spend lots of time and even shoot.

 

[mammynun]

These are both pistols.


The lower one is a pistol, the one towards the top of the frame is an SBR.


I'm sure that's no more clear than logical, but there it is...

 

[Yeah]

This gosh darn iPad won't let me link to the &%$#@*& ATFE letter on the Magpul AFG. Can someone get it for me please?

Page 3.

 

[richardraw316]

Does a sig brace measure into overall length? And are title two weapons free to cross state lines without prior consent unlike an SBR? I have been wanting a pap pistol with a sig brace for awhile! I have even seen guys are legally putting pistol buffer tubes on them and while it serves no purpose you can then have it be folding with the brace. But no VFG unless it counts into overall length or you send in with your $5... I am contemplating. I want a pistol not an SBR so I can move across state lines freely with it due to where I live and spend lots of time and even shoot.

I too would like to know the answer to this question.

 

[Bfish]

I did a little research and it seems an AOW stamp lets you put a fore grip on a pistol. And most states recognize it, you don't have to fill out any paperwork to take them from state to state, just be certain the state allows it... I could be wrong but this is what I found.

 

[reno]

I thought barrel length less than 16" with an overall length less than 26"