We've officially lost war in Afghanistan, right?

[TomJefferson]

Don't worry about the past. Focus on the next compain talking points...

Syria 2014!!!

If not sooner.

 

[Jludo]

911 had a very loose association with Afghanistan, at best Bin Laden was in Afghanistan at some point which hardly justifies invading the entire country.
A bunch of Saudi Arabians taking orders out of Yemen and training in the US attacked on 911.

 

[Sfrandolph]

911 had a very loose association with Afghanistan, at best Bin Laden was in Afghanistan at some point which hardly justifies invading the entire country.
A bunch of Saudi Arabians taking orders out of Yemen and training in the US attacked on 911.

And if NSA did its job those middle easterners should not have been allowed inside the USA. Then 9/11 would not have even occurred.

 

[Destro]

And if NSA did its job those middle easterners should not have been allowed inside the USA. Then 9/11 would not have even occurred.

what on earth would the NSA have done?

 

[Jludo]

what on earth would the NSA have done?

Its in the pbs documentary 'spy factory', the NSA was tracking both ends of every call the terrorists were making outside the country, they listened to every call bin laden made. However they refused to share that info with the FBI who were in charge of tracking the terrorists in the states.

Really snowdens revelations are nothing new compared to what's revealed in that great documentary

 

[Destro]

Its in the pbs documentary 'spy factory', the NSA was tracking both ends of every call the terrorists were making outside the country, they listened to every call bin laden made. However they refused to share that info with the FBI who were in charge of tracking the terrorists in the states.

Really snowdens revelations are nothing new compared to what's revealed in that great documentary

ah...I was thinking more of the physical sense

 

[lucky4034]

We should have been completely out of there by the 21 day mark....

 

[Shadow8088]

Ask Obumer. I am sure he will tell you we succeeded.

Remember the aircraft carrier and the giant "Mission Accomplished" fiasco? yeah.... wanna try that one again?

 

[.45 Dave]

When we allow politicians to dictate the rules of war, whether it is Korea, Vietnam or Afghanistan, there can never be a victory.

 

[Jludo]

When we allow politicians to dictate the rules of war, whether it is Korea, Vietnam or Afghanistan, there can never be a victory.

Can you be more specific? I blame the politicians as well but not because of any rules they put on the war, because they go to war for profit and the wrong reasons in general. We didn't lose in Afghanistan because of any rules, we lost because the task at hand was impossible.

 

[lucky4034]

Every war has its winners and losers....

Winners:
-Business's that profit from war

Losers:
-All those who died (and the families they left behind) to line the pockets of the winners.
-All those people who lost their liberties along the way.... (Citizens on both sides)

 

[John Titor]

The title of this topic assumes that America's intent was to win.
Was it ?

 

[HoughMade]

It was folly to ever assume we could implant a democratic republic in a country that isn't willing to fight for it them selves.

That has much, much broader application than Afghanistan.

 

[femurphy77]

Are wars really won or just settled? They usually just bankrupt the nation who supposedly wins.

There was this little skirmish back in the early/mid forties that really muck up your statement.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That has much, much broader application than Afghanistan.

You got it.

 

[.45 Dave]

Can you be more specific? I blame the politicians as well but not because of any rules they put on the war, because they go to war for profit and the wrong reasons in general. We didn't lose in Afghanistan because of any rules, we lost because the task at hand was impossible.

Specifically, I will put up my step-grandson as an example.
He was in Afghanistan and they were not allowed to engage except under specific conditions in which they were sure no civilians would be injured. Didn't matter that the enemy was using them as a shield. Our boys could not fire back.
They were not allowed to engage enemy combatants firing from a mosque. Any damage to a mosque was considered extremely forbidden.
He watched a group of fighters tear an Afghan police unit to shreds from two blocks away but they were not allowed to intervene due to some policy even though the police unit was begging them to help. EDIT--his unit commander went as far up the line as he could to get permission to go their aid. He was denied by every officer he spoke to.
All this because of rules put in place by the politicians, and in all fairness, probably from both US and Afgan politicians.
These were just his examples. I'm sure there are plenty more out there.

 

[Jludo]

Specifically, I will put up my step-grandson as an example.
He was in Afghanistan and they were not allowed to engage except under specific conditions in which they were sure no civilians would be injured. Didn't matter that the enemy was using them as a shield. Our boys could not fire back.
They were not allowed to engage enemy combatants firing from a mosque. Any damage to a mosque was considered extremely forbidden.
He watched a group of fighters tear an Afghan police unit to shreds from two blocks away but they were not allowed to intervene due to some policy even though the police unit was begging them to help. EDIT--his unit commander went as far up the line as he could to get permission to go their aid. He was denied by every officer he spoke to.
All this because of rules put in place by the politicians, and in all fairness, probably from both US and Afgan politicians.
These were just his examples. I'm sure there are plenty more out there.

I know what the rules were, I'm saying that even if we let them shoot anything that moved, we still wouldn't 'win the war'. Afghanistan by design isn't capable of being won, no matter if there are strict rules of engagement or not.