Welllll... Maybe it was planned..

[Blackhawk2001]

WTC would have happened using any number of idiots to execute the Blind Sheik's plan. That's my point. When you remove an easily replacable commodity, expect it to be easily replaced.

I know you're focusing on the muslim connection to Ft. Hood, but that guy could have just as easily been secular, and kept all of his crazy on a spiral bound notebook.

No way anyone anywhere ever is going to curtail shootings unless you curtail ALL freedom first.

MY point was that the FBI was investigating some of the WTC bombers for their threats, but determined that they didn't have the means to act and dropped the investigation. Then the bombers hooked up with the Blind Sheik, who hooked them up with a couple professionals and voila!, we have a terrorist incident.

If his military superiors had taken the MAJ Hasaan's pronouncements seriously - as they assuredly would have had he made such pronouncements against Planned Parenthood Clinics - he never would have found himself in position to carry out his plan.

To my mind, that's like being an OC with blinders on every time you go outside.

 

[indybuell]

Let me just say:

^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^

The fact that O will get any votes at all in November astonishes me.

 

[Stschil]

Some points which you didn't address and may have missed:

He had done the surveillance for the hit on his own prior to getting the materials from the FBI.

He had already downloaded information on bomb-making techniques and acquiring the materials to make explosives, although the FBI says he apparently never used the information.

"Kramer terrorists" (the FBI term for this guy and his lookalikes) may be harmless themselves until, like happened with the first WTC bombing in 1993, they get linked up with more professional terrorists and manage to complete their mission.

The FBI ensured they were taped confirming that it was his idea for the bombing, not theirs, so there was no "entrapment" involved.

This wasn't a "thought crime"; the guy was looking for the means to carry out a terrorist act; the FBI got to him before competent terrorists did. I have no problem with that.

Well, he watched videos, planned the attack, and had the materials, why not just arrest him then. Sounds like there was plenty of evidence.
He should been scooped up then.

Or maybe, just maybe, he really didn't have to stones to do it until he was "recruited" and groomed.

Just maybe he wasn't crazy enough to make the headlines they wanted to see Plastered on the Trib's front page.

He's a small fish in a big pond, they should have sat on him until the 'competent' terrorists came along, then drained the pond.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Well, he watched videos, planned the attack, and had the materials, why not just arrest him then. Sounds like there was plenty of evidence.
He should been scooped up then.

Or maybe, just maybe, he really didn't have to stones to do it until he was "recruited" and groomed.

Just maybe he wasn't crazy enough to make the headlines they wanted to see Plastered on the Trib's front page.

He's a small fish in a big pond, they should have sat on him until the 'competent' terrorists came along, then drained the pond.

According to the Stratfor article, rather than arrest him on "thin" evidence (after all, planning isn't necessarily doing, right?) they allowed him to move forward given the "opportunity" and the "means". He could have backed out, too - but he didn't do it.

 

[Stschil]

According to the Stratfor article, rather than arrest him on "thin" evidence (after all, planning isn't necessarily doing, right?) they allowed him to move forward given the "opportunity" and the "means". He could have backed out, too - but he didn't do it.

And yet we have people screaming for regulations to limit the amount of ammo that can be purchase, FFL's have to report multiple gun buys, the SW border states have a whole new set of procedures they have to follow (courtesy of BATF, DOJ, and F&F) all geared toward gun owners based on NO EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING WHATSOEVER, but they won't stop someone who has the motive, means, and material because its "too thin"?

He passed the point of planning when he started to amass the bomb making materials. That's enough for me to reach beyond reasonable doubt. They had the case, they wanted more drama so the string him along. Im pretty sure the under cover FBI guy didn't ask the guy "are you sure you don't want to back out?", or say "Dude, this ain't right". Nope, I'll be he was encouraging the kid.

Stir the koolaid for me some more, I'm not getting the right taste.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

And yet we have people screaming for regulations to limit the amount of ammo that can be purchase, FFL's have to report multiple gun buys, the SW border states have a whole new set of procedures they have to follow (courtesy of BATF, DOJ, and F&F) all geared toward gun owners based on NO EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING WHATSOEVER, but they won't stop someone who has the motive, means, and material because its "too thin"?

To paraphrase: "Gun haters gonna hate". Any excuse to curtail gun ownership will do. Or haven't you noticed that?

He passed the point of planning when he started to amass the bomb making materials. That's enough for me to reach beyond reasonable doubt. They had the case, they wanted more drama so the string him along. Im pretty sure the under cover FBI guy didn't ask the guy "are you sure you don't want to back out?", or say "Dude, this ain't right". Nope, I'll be he was encouraging the kid.

I don't know what words were used, but the article said they used religious phraseology to confirm that it was HIS willingness to perform the act and that no one was talking him into it.

Stir the koolaid for me some more, I'm not getting the right taste.

Mix some of your own urine into it, that might help you drink it easier.

 

[Stschil]

Mix some of your own urine into it, that might help you drink it easier.

Naw, I keep that in the milk bottles....which reminds me, I need to have Mom pick up some more Kleenex and Anti bacterial solution. This basement is so dirty!

 

[Armed-N-Ready]

So Al Quaeda aren't really terrorists...

thery're just protestors like OWS.

 

[Expat]

thery're just protestors like OWS.

Actually you don't need purple. The OWS folks don't have a very good track record of being law abiding either.

Don't forget:
http://news.yahoo.com/ows-tactics-turn-violent-attempted-cleveland-bridge-bombing-210700652.html

 

[ATOMonkey]

MY point was that the FBI was investigating some of the WTC bombers for their threats, but determined that they didn't have the means to act and dropped the investigation. Then the bombers hooked up with the Blind Sheik, who hooked them up with a couple professionals and voila!, we have a terrorist incident.

If his military superiors had taken the MAJ Hasaan's pronouncements seriously - as they assuredly would have had he made such pronouncements against Planned Parenthood Clinics - he never would have found himself in position to carry out his plan.

To my mind, that's like being an OC with blinders on every time you go outside.

Ok, let's follow that line of thinking. You arrest the inept. Then what? You still have the Blind Sheik out there looking for easily replaceable guys. You replace them. Stuff still blows up.

You would arrest Hassan for his speech? That walks a dangerous line, does it not?

A man often meets his fate on the road to avoid it.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Ok, let's follow that line of thinking. You arrest the inept. Then what? You still have the Blind Sheik out there looking for easily replaceable guys. You replace them. Stuff still blows up.

You would arrest Hassan for his speech? That walks a dangerous line, does it not?

A man often meets his fate on the road to avoid it.

Disregarding all other "what ifs" in your post, MAJ Hassan should have been arrested because he was communicating with a known terrorist contrary to the UCMJ and because he was advocating policies contrary to Army policy in public and to his superior officers. He should never have been placed into a position where he was able to do what he did.

As far as " . . .arrest the inept . . ." is concerned; if evidence points to them planning a terrorist act, they should be investigated, as with any other crime. Of course, if we're going to completely change our culture to one which eschews "preventative law enforcement" and only punishes criminal acts after they happen, I'm okay with that, but we have to change the culture first.

 

[Willie]

Inept is a tough judgement. When does "inept" cross over to getting the job done? Define that line...

Especially when we have some "inept" LEOS after them,.