Well my nephew made a big mistake.

[dhnorris]

Have him get a lawyer and get both charges dropped, criminal records are not a benefit.

 

[GuyRelford]

He's not 21, he shouldn't be drinking. It's against the law. If the officer has an electronic ticket machine, it's just a few key strokes away from a ticket. Also officers usually watch the person for a given time to allow any residual alcohol to disapate from the mouth.

Sounds to me like he was passed out in a car. That's probably grounds to stop and ask about what's going on. Most any officer can smell alcohol coming from the breath of a person who has been drinking. That's a no-brainer.

Like I said before the PC was his being passed out in the car. I admit that he probably isn't a bad kid. He is still 18 and should not be drinking. He probably won't lose his right to get a ltch but should tell him to straighten up. The decisions he makes now will effect him for the rest of his life. He doesn't need a PI on his record.

I agree with everything you've said. +1

I'll always make any reasonable argument against the existence of probable cause or reasonable suspicion, but I have no problem with an officer investigating someone passed out in a vehicle in public.

On a related point - if the person was passed out due to a serious medical condition (instead of simply being intoxicated) wouldn't we be critical of any officer who observed him through the window and then just left him there?

Guy

 

[lrahm]

I had suspected you were LEO at first due to your inability to think in open terms (Law is the law ala Judge Dredd Style), now I am positive you are LEO. LEO often have trouble understanding the big picture in life. As someone had recently commented, what you are looking for (and what the law tries to accomplish) is a behavior change. For some people that means jail (or death for those that will never learn), for others getting the ticket/embarrassment is enough. I hope this kid gets a good lawyer and embarrasses the cop so he learns his actions were over the top. What a waste of tax payer money in this situation. I could only hope this would go to trial and I be on the jury. NOT GUILTY!!

We have different opinions, and I don't expect to change yours. I know for certain, when you come up against an informed, intelligent citizen (such as myself and many others on this forum), you will get publicly humiliated in front of a judge and your peers. Depending on the situation, it might lead to a lawsuit.

Sleeping in your car is not a crime. Luckily for the cop Harassing someone without probable cause is not either (It should be). He most likely had better things to do than to harrass this kid, maybe catch someone doing something actually detrimental to society (Robbery, Cooking Meth, Assault, child molester, etc). Lets concentrate on becoming a more crime free safe community. Kind of what this forum also speaks to, safety, security, and stopping the people who are actually bad and not some kid having a beer.

Stay safe, and have a Good Day!!

Ouch! First, I don't think that I ever said "stick it to him". And I will stand firm in my belief that someone should talk to him and impress the fact that the choices he make now will effect the rest of his life. This is a prime example. Harassing the kid, no he did that to himself. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand that an 18 year old is not mature enough to handle alcohol. It would be the equivilant of a 12 year old getting behind the wheel of a car. You and I were not there and cannot second guess the officer.

As far as the "robbery, cooking meth, assault and child molester" comment, I've delt with those subjects more than I care to last year.

You stay safe and have a good day.

 

[lrahm]

I agree with everything you've said. +1

I'll always make any reasonable argument against the existence of probable cause or reasonable suspicion, but I have no problem with an officer investigating someone passed out in a vehicle in public.

On a related point - if the person was passed out due to a serious medical condition (instead of simply being intoxicated) wouldn't we be critical of any officer who observed him through the window and then just left him there?

Guy

I would be very angry with an officer who didn't stop to check, or see a car stalled on the side of the road and pass on by. It's not uncommon for officers to find confused senior citizens just parked in malls or people in diabetic comas. Chasing bank robbers or taking down meth labs are just a small part of our duties.

 

[rafterman191]

I would be very angry with an officer who didn't stop to check, or see a car stalled on the side of the road and pass on by. It's not uncommon for officers to find confused senior citizens just parked in malls or people in diabetic comas. Chasing bank robbers or taking down meth labs are just a small part of our duties.

Agreed, my uncle checked on someone "sleeping" in a car down the block. Problem was he was sleeping with a garden hose attached to the exhaust pipe and the other end into the back window. I bet his parents wished someone had checked on him. A couple of minor charges when your that young will not ruin your life. There is not a agency that is that narrow sighted to refuse to work with someone if they are right for the job even with a little dirt in the past. If he takes it serious though and learns his lesson, I hope he comes out of it clean and better equipped to make decisions in the future. I could have used some guidance at that age, I was a hellion and am paying for it almost 20 years later.

 

[Indy317]

Since the legal limit for intoxication is .08, how did they get him for PI? I can see the minor consumption, but PI? That's a stretch.

.08 is the per se limit for operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated. It is just a blood alcohol content where the state says "If your BAC is at .08 or higher, then you automatically meet the state's definition of intoxication." I've always thought this thought process odd, since the actual state definition of intoxication mentions nothing about a certain BAC.

IC 9-13-2-86 Intoxicated
Sec. 86. "Intoxicated" means under the influence of:
(1) alcohol;
(2) a controlled substance (as defined in IC 35-48-1);
(3) a drug other than alcohol or a controlled substance;
(4) a substance described in IC 35-46-6-2 or IC 35-46-6-3; or
(5) a combination of substances described in subdivisions (1) through (4);
so that there is an impaired condition of thought and action and the loss of normal control of a person's faculties.

So basically the state is saying that at .08 BAC, a person meets the above.

No cop in his right mind is going to give an 18 year old a PI and MIP for sleeping it off in his car (Unless its parked in the middle of a busy intersection, or it is a stolen cop car type thing).

I'm sure there are officers out there whose goal in life is to interject themselves into other people's lives. I know an officer who wanted to arrest two underage persons for similar crimes. Their portable breath test results: .007 and .02, I kid you not. I talked him out of it. When it comes to LEOs, your best bet is to avoid them at all cost if you have violated the law, it is that simple. Being in a car sleeping it off with evidence of a crime still present (ie: odor of alcohol) isn't something one should do, ever. You never know what type of person the LEO is. Some are very strict with their opinion of how the law should be enforced, some are back and forth. There are also folks who are in training, and it is possible that the trainee needs an arrest. If there is PC for an arrest, it wouldn't surprise me if some training officers would go forward with having the rookie make a custodial arrest because it definitely would help with training when it comes to handcuffing, searching a prisoner, paperwork, etc..

He is a good boy and a Eagle Scout.He just left the house and i had him read all your post and he will be seeking counsel to get at least one dropped. He has the money,he works hard and spends little. Thanks All.

If he doesn't have money, I would strongly suggest using the public defender. In most counties, they already have it set up where they will drop all but one misdemeanor. And, some counties will even let you pay a fee for a diversion program where they dismiss the charges. These sort of pleas vary, but I would do that. That way when asked about being arrested, he can say yes. When asked about convictions, he can say no.

 

[lrahm]

Agreed, my uncle checked on someone "sleeping" in a car down the block. Problem was he was sleeping with a garden hose attached to the exhaust pipe and the other end into the back window. I bet his parents wished someone had checked on him. A couple of minor charges when your that young will not ruin your life. There is not a agency that is that narrow sighted to refuse to work with someone if they are right for the job even with a little dirt in the past. If he takes it serious though and learns his lesson, I hope he comes out of it clean and better equipped to make decisions in the future. I could have used some guidance at that age, I was a hellion and am paying for it almost 20 years later.

I hope that everything comes out well for him. Something minor like this possible could be a wake-up call. If he doesn't take it seriously it could be something different. We have all made decisions that we look back on and wished we did different. I would not be telling the truth if I said I was perfect. I am thankful that I had people to jerk a knot in my tail at times.

As for the incident with your uncle, we can all be thankful that people take a minute to look at something that looks out of place. I am sorry for your uncle that he found something like that and sorry for the parents.

Take care.

 

[db1959]

I have friend who when younger at a DUI. He paid dearly for it but it was also a wake a call. He rebounded, learned from it and is now regional manager of a large super market chain.

My brother got busted for PI, minor in possession and possession of weed. The Judge gave him a choice, jail or an armed service. He retired from the air force after 20 years and is doing quite well.

I'm glad the LEO checked on him, hopefully it will be a wake up call for him. Best of luck to your nephew, rhinoabe.

 

[lrahm]

I have friend who when younger at a DUI. He paid dearly for it but it was also a wake a call. He rebounded, learned from it and is now regional manager of a large super market chain.

My brother got busted for PI, minor in possession and possession of weed. The Judge gave him a choice, jail or an armed service. He retired from the air force after 20 years and is doing quite well.

I'm glad the LEO checked on him, hopefully it will be a wake up call for him. Best of luck to your nephew, rhinoabe.

Ditto.

 

[rafterman191]

Ditto.

Yes LEO's keep checking, if my kid is out there doing this I want to find out any way I can. This time he tried to sleep it off, maybe if he had not been caught, next time he would have drove off. Don't drink if you are not of age and don't get in a car if you are drunk. Call someone, take a cab, etc. We all have cell phones. That simple.

 

[scott08]

The rest of the free world tends to disagree.We are the only ones (In the world, besides dictators) that have such restrictive alcohol policies. Ever been to europe? They don't have a lot of the alcohol issues we have. Get on the train after 8 on a weekend everyone is winding down with a beer, get off the train, everyone is walking with a beer. Not the binge drinking that has become ever so popular in the USA.

At 18 I was mature enough to handle it. I never had any issues, if I drank, I was staying where ever I was which was typically a safe environment. At 18 I had also been flying for 3 years and my pilots license for a year. Obviously some people are capable of good judgement at a young age. LEO love to make generalities (Rightfully so, they get lied to all day long and don't have the luxury of such discretion for the most part.) but know that not all people are bad and out to break the law. My issue was never that the LEO checked on the kid, or even gave him a minor consumption. The PI was totally uncalled for and seems like quite a stretch bordering abuse of power. That was my issue, over zealous cop not using his head, which ultimately harms society instead of helping.

Ouch! First, I don't think that I ever said "stick it to him". And I will stand firm in my belief that someone should talk to him and impress the fact that the choices he make now will effect the rest of his life. This is a prime example. Harassing the kid, no he did that to himself. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand that an 18 year old is not mature enough to handle alcohol. It would be the equivilant of a 12 year old getting behind the wheel of a car. You and I were not there and cannot second guess the officer.

As far as the "robbery, cooking meth, assault and child molester" comment, I've delt with those subjects more than I care to last year.

You stay safe and have a good day.

 

[hopper68]

You ever notice the ones complaining about the police are the same ones who think it does not matter when they break the law? If you do not like the laws then fight to change them instead of whining about enforcement.
When I broke down along side the road a few years back I was glad a deputy stopped to check on me. And every ticket I ever got I earned.

 

[GuyRelford]

LEO love to make generalities.

Please tell me you see the irony in this comment.

 

[blackoak]

Hell, back in the good old days the cop would have been at the reception getting drunk, if in a small town. I witnessed this many times and they were fine LEO that knew the true meaning of breaking public law. I lived and grew up in a small town and on a few occasions had the local lawman do nothing more than drive me home when I was drinking and tell my parents. The punishment I received from them was many times worse than what any judge could have given me. Times have changed!!

 

[lrahm]

The rest of the free world tends to disagree.We are the only ones (In the world, besides dictators) that have such restrictive alcohol policies. Ever been to europe? They don't have a lot of the alcohol issues we have. Get on the train after 8 on a weekend everyone is winding down with a beer, get off the train, everyone is walking with a beer. Not the binge drinking that has become ever so popular in the USA.

At 18 I was mature enough to handle it. I never had any issues, if I drank, I was staying where ever I was which was typically a safe environment. At 18 I had also been flying for 3 years and my pilots license for a year. Obviously some people are capable of good judgement at a young age. LEO love to make generalities (Rightfully so, they get lied to all day long and don't have the luxury of such discretion for the most part.) but know that not all people are bad and out to break the law. My issue was never that the LEO checked on the kid, or even gave him a minor consumption. The PI was totally uncalled for and seems like quite a stretch bordering abuse of power. That was my issue, over zealous cop not using his head, which ultimately harms society instead of helping.

That really is cool having your pilots license at 18. I commend you. But for the most part an 18 year old doesn't have the maturity to handle alcohol. I can't tell you the number of 30 year olds that I have ran into that still haven't matured enough to handle it. But, it is against the law. I don't write every infraction I run into. Maybe 1 in 10 gets at least a written warning. I do have better things to do than mess with a drunk. On the other hand if the situation calls for something different, it can happen. Like I said previously, we wern't there and don't know the whole situation.

 

[scott08]

You must have mis quoted. I didn't see the rest of what I wrote after that. Based on your comments (and my experiences), my statement is correct. Stereotyping is alive and well even though LEO don't like to admit it. Personal bias effects our everyday life (no matter how slight or subconscious).

Please tell me you see the irony in this comment.

 

[lrahm]

You must have mis quoted. I didn't see the rest of what I wrote after that. Based on your comments (and my experiences), my statement is correct. Stereotyping is alive and well even though LEO don't like to admit it. Personal bias effects our everyday life (no matter how slight or subconscious).

Not for argument sake, you are proving it. You feel the police are sterotyping normal citizens but in reverse what are you saying?

I wish we had time where I live to be able sit down with normal people and talk about their problems in a friendly fashion. But I have to take care of the problem of the family's 15 year old in 20 minutes what they (the family) took a decade to produce.

The OP in this thread shows signs of concern and asked for an opinion. I hope and really don't think that he will have problems with a ltch if this will be his only alcohol related offense. If he feels that he needs a lawyer, then he should get on. He might be elegible for a program that if he completes it, the charge will go away.

A typical day for an officer ranges from drunks, tickets, accidents, drugs, family fights, barking cats and so on. We don't know what we will have until we turn the corner or the radio calls our car number. Last night I had to deal with a house that had a dead boa, two mean pit bulls and a life scorpion. You take what you are given. Don't throw this back at the police and say it's his fault because Barney hasn't got anything better to do.

 

[GuyRelford]

You must have mis quoted. I didn't see the rest of what I wrote after that. Based on your comments (and my experiences), my statement is correct. Stereotyping is alive and well even though LEO don't like to admit it. Personal bias effects our everyday life (no matter how slight or subconscious).

I'll take that as a "no."

 

[bwframe]

My concern is why this 19 year old man isn't here commenting and questioning for himself?

 

[Hayseed_40]

My concern is why this 19 year old man isn't here commenting and questioning for himself?

Because he is smart enough to leave his personal court issues - well, personal. Especially since they are still pending.

The OP's question is legitimate but I would not post on teh internut until complete and even then... Does your nephew know that you are stating his guilt on the net (albeit hearsay)?