Wasting our Vote

[Jake46184]

Have to wonder why some people are so adamant that we should vote for a known socialist?

You got it 1/2 right. The "not this again" should have been directed at the OP's post. This mental light-weight stuff is getting really old and annoying.

 

[lucky4034]

Our voting system is so flawed that I don't even care to vote at all.... Our voting system (and not just for the presidential election) is inherently designed to move towards socialism (and eventually economic collapse).

Any time you vote... you are voting to decide how our tax money is going to be allocated/spent. The only problem with that is we don't all pay the same amount of taxes into the system yet have the same amount of say on how the money should be spent.

Pay $50k a year in taxes.... get 1 vote.
Pay $10k a year in taxes.... get 1 vote.
Don't pay ****, but get $40k a year back from the government for welfare, free medical, free college tuition, free government cheese... get 1 vote.

What a ridiculous system....

 

[lucky4034]

And furthermore... how hard is it to come up with a fair voting system anyway?

1 vote LMAO!!

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Jake -
There is a difference between an honest discussion and disagreement among good people and the need to call names. Since you feel the need to refer to me as a "mental light weight", I will not bother you any further, and you sir, may kindly defecate in your hat. If you don't like the thread, you don't need to participate.


ATM, et al... My point was not to persuade anyone that they were or were not "wasting their vote". It was an honest consideration of the point at which a given candidate becomes viable enough to be worthy of voting for. For instance, if I agreed with the views of Alfred E Neumann, rest assured that some jackass will vote for him this year. That's a frivolous example, but hopefully it illustrates my point. It could just as easily be any local person - one that's not known nationally as much as locally. I might think that they are a GREAT candidate - but if no one has heard of them in the rest of the country, the point is moot.

My point was along the lines that if Johnson had the name recognition of a Perot, I'd be going there. I give Johnson the credit of being a well thought out and reasoned person. I didn't give Perot the same credit in '92... But he DID have the setup to be viable.

 

[88GT]

The better voting system would be to have two votes.

First time around, all candidates are welcome and everyone votes for whichever candidate they like best.

Second time, only the top two candidates from the first vote (regardless of party) are on the ballot.

This lets everyone vote his conscience and not risk "wasting a vote" in the final election. Of course, our primary two parties wouldn't like this one bit.

Isn't that what we do in the primaries --> general election? I see no fundamental difference.

 

[strahd71]

Isn't that what we do in the primaries --> general election? I see no fundamental difference.

seems like it to me?

jake

 

[ATM]

ATM, et al... My point was not to persuade anyone that they were or were not "wasting their vote". It was an honest consideration of the point at which a given candidate becomes viable enough to be worthy of voting for. ...

I get your points and give weight to viability in my processing of candidates as well.

A large point where I differ is that I'm not looking at viability in the exclusive (or even primary) context of winning the current election, but the viability of my support and my vote to impact other candidates, other voters and future elections.

Rather than discuss that, I took some easy cracks in this thread. My bad. Maybe later I'll come back and be more serious.

 

[strahd71]

I get your points and give weight to viability in my processing of candidates.

A large point where I differ is that I'm not looking at viability in the exclusive (or even primary) context of winning the current election, but the viability of my support and my vote to impact other candidates, other voters and future elections.

Rather than discuss that, I took some easy cracks in this thread. My bad. Maybe later I'll come back and be more serious.

i understand the principle aspect of it for you and God bless you vote how you want.

but do YOU personally think that romney/obama or anyone in the future will get the message your sending?

i ask this in a sincere way and in no way trying to be smart or snarky. just curious as to your thoughts

jake

 

[88GT]

My vote isn't wasted if it enables others to come off the fence and waste theirs with me next time.

After the next time, the numbers may be high enough to coax others into wasting theirs.

Eventually, all those wasted votes together total a win.

I wish there was some other way, but it seems most people have adopted some sort of "strategy" that does little more than keep the 2 current parties running the game.

When do you expect this strategy of yours to start working?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

If only there were multiple candidates that weren't Obama...

Oh wait, every other candidate except Obama is not Obama.



But I assume you meant that you just vote for whomever the Republican party selects. That seems wasteful to me.

I'd rather exert some minimal control over the political process than vote for a candidate who has zero (make that 5%) chance of winning - or not vote at all.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

ATM - appreciated. I asked your opinion because you've proven to be a person that thinks things through and I value your thoughts on the subject. Ditto for the rest of the thoughtful crowd.

Truth is - as any field of candidates gets winnowed down to 2 or 3 or whatever, the likelihood of having one that I agree with goes down exponentially. The question is - how best to proceed... and that's what I'm considering.

 

[strahd71]

Truth is - as any field of candidates gets winnowed down to 2 or 3 or whatever, the likelihood of having one that I agree with goes down exponentially. The question is - how best to proceed... and that's what I'm considering.

seems like the guys i like are usually the first ones out! i hate that

jake

 

[Citizen711]

I held my nose and voted for McCain last time. I'll do that again for Romney. Only this time I will volunteer for his campaign too. Bozo the clown would be better than what we have now....

Exactly. That's just the unfortunate reality of the situation. Even if 60% of the voters voted for any one of three other candidates, that would still leave Obama with 40%, which would likely still be plenty for the win.

Voting your conscience is great (and the way I try to go), unless you are absolutely certain that one of the candidates would be a complete disaster, as I am with Obama. It just scares me to think how much more damage he could do to the American way of life. Heaven forbid he is able to appoint even one more Supreme Court justice.

Romney isn't my first choice, either, but you can bet your backside I'll be voting for him in November.

 

[ray d]

If your choice is between Obama and Romney vote Obama at least the Rs will watch Obama.

 

[Citizen711]

If your choice is between Obama and Romney vote Obama at least the Rs will watch Obama.

Once you're POTUS, no one watches over you but the voters, and you don't pay for the damage you do until four years later.

 

[Kagnew]

Once you're POTUS, no one watches over you but the voters, and you don't pay for the damage you do until four years later.

Except that if you're in your second term, you're a lame duck and willing to say "to H... with what the voters think".

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

Is picking my favorite football team by going with vegas odds of winning the superbowl the same thing as voting for the candidate most likely to beat Obama?

 

[churchmouse]

If your choice is between Obama and Romney vote Obama at least the Rs will watch Obama.

What.....really.....

 

[ATM]

i understand the principle aspect of it for you and God bless you vote how you want.

but do YOU personally think that romney/obama or anyone in the future will get the message your sending?

i ask this in a sincere way and in no way trying to be smart or snarky. just curious as to your thoughts

jake

The current "winners" are oblivious to it, it's not even a part of their game. I believe that the future will inevitably get the message I'm sending loud and clear. Whether they embrace that message in time to save our nation or lament the fact that they didn't believe it back when they could have helped make a difference is the question I can't answer

When do you expect this strategy of yours to start working?

When enough people realize that how we've been doing it cannot work and our national ruin becomes impossible to ignore.
I hope and strive for sooner, but that is my realistic expectation based upon the longstanding strategy of continuing to vote for "the lesser of two evils" which I see popularly defended around here.

Neither of those two evils continuing to take their turns ruling us will make any attempt to avert us from the coming disaster we face, so I've moved on to a strategy which at least allows me hope of making an impact until our time runs out.

Support candidates willing to alter the national course which the current parties have us on. Or watch us burn, whatever.

I'd rather exert some minimal control over the political process than vote for a candidate who has zero (make that 5%) chance of winning - or not vote at all.

I have zero control over the current establishment and my vote made zero impact in 2008. I voted for McNasty and the hot chick because I didn't know any better and bought into the lesser evil blah blah blah.

I've learned much since then and will never waste my vote, my support or my voice according to that scheme again.

If you truly believe that you have some minimal control in the process by voting differently than I, I don't blame you for exercising it as you see fit.

Carry on!

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Ya know what sucks ATM? There's a ton of good people on this forum. Most all of them want the same thing. Or pretty darn close. And they are divided about the best way to get there.

One group says "minimize the short term damage by voting for the lesser of two evils" , and the other says "vote for someone with no legit shot of winning this time around, and hope it turns the next election.". Neither group will get what they're after this time around. The question is more of what WILL we get?

I'm thinking that there needs to be an INGO election night OC/CC bash in November where we all drown our sorrows together.