Virginia Looking At Alternative To US Currency

[sparky241]

The U.S. Mint produces legal tender gold coins currently and has for a long time.

ok my question to you: can i take a us dollar into a bank and redeem it for one dollar in silver? they do produce silver coinage but it isnt whats being used to cash in the iou we currently get

 

[sparky241]

I think Utah is considering the same thing.

Legislation proposes Utah adopt a gold-based system | The Salt Lake Tribune

montana has too

State considers return to gold, silver dollars

 

[sparky241]

it looks like indiana has looked into it as well

Gold Money Bill

 

[cburnworth]

If your dollar says Silver Certificate on the top it can be redeemed for silver.

 

[CarmelHP]

ok my question to you: can i take a us dollar into a bank and redeem it for one dollar in silver? they do produce silver coinage but it isnt whats being used to cash in the iou we currently get

No, but what's your point? Saying that FRN's are not redeemable from the Fed in specie is not the same thing as saying that specie cannot be used by states as legal tender.

If your dollar says Silver Certificate on the top it can be redeemed for silver.

No, not since 1964.

 

[sparky241]

No, but what's your point? Saying that FRN's are not redeemable from the Fed in specie is not the same thing as saying that specie cannot be used by states as legal tender.



No, not since 1964.

you said they produce legal tender coins: will i get gold/silver in return for my iou ? thats the part im replying to. it isnt recognized in most stores and you wont get it in return for the iou.

my mom still has a bunch of those. and the bank will give you nothing but a new bill for them.

 

[sparky241]

If your dollar says Silver Certificate on the top it can be redeemed for silver.

nope mother has quite a few of them. we called the bank and they will give you nothing but a new bill for it.

 

[cadan]

Each state with their own currency would have to have it recognized by all other states. And then you would need an exchange rate.

Think about the ramifications if all states went to their own currency. There would have to be agreed exchange rates, calculating how you would pay for something would really get interesting if you had several bills in your wallet from different states.

This a really a non-problem, consider:

First, if several states adopt gold and silver as currency that they are not at all adopting different monies but a common money. When people exchange gold and silver coinage it is the mass of metal being exchanged which constitutes its value. So maybe one state would issue "one once silver" coins, and another issue "half ounce silver coins". Maybe they would even call them names (penny, nickel, dime, quarter .. thaller, schilling, frank, pound). But is it really so hard to discern that one of the former coins is worth two of the latter?

Second, even if every state chose a different metal from which to mint its coins (so the above did not apply), it remains trivial to trade between states. In fact, this happens routinely and every day in all international exchange between countries which use different fiat currencies. There of course develops some freely varying market rate of exchange between the metal types that is not set by the government but by the "supply and demand" of various market participants. Note: The government should not decree a fixed ratios of exchange (e.g. between gold and silver), which is tantamount a price controls, See Gresham's law: Properly stated "the money artificially overvalued by government drives out of circulation the money artificially undervalued by government" - often poorly stated as "bad money drives out good money".

Third, consider neither of the above apply - that is to say you have "several bills in your wallet from different states". This is forbidden by the Constitution where it speaks of "bills of credit". But regardless, in a non-fiat system such bills are either going to be:

(a) A title to property: The note issuer (e.g. state government, bank, etc,.) holds the property (a certain quantity of metal) owned by the note holder. When the note holder returns the note to the issuer, the note is destroyed and the property is returned to its owner. Recognize the origin of paper money lies here. In this country the note issuer defrauded all property owners in 1933 as per the Fed/banks/FDR refusing to honor issued titles because they had formerly issued fraudulent titles (more titles to property were printed than the amount of property which existed).

(b) An IOU: Similar to the above, but the note owner does not 'own' any particular property, but rather there is a promise of the note issuer to provide payment at an agreed upon future date. That is to say one owes money to another, and of course, depending on the credit worthiness of the borrower one may or may not get paid back in full. This is why IOU's are a money substitute and trade at a certain discount (e.g. junk bonds only sell for higher interest rates than AAA rated bonds).

In either case one runs a greater or lesser risk that the issuer of any bank note (a.k.a. "several [paper] bills") may defraud its owner by failing to return the property, or fail to repay the debt owed. When one offers to transfer a paper note in exchange for something (e.g. a firearm) the one receiving payment must consider that the note will not be able to be redeemed at face value. This is really tantamount and not different from the scenario that whenever one puts trust into another that he must assess his risks. Again, this type of thing is already well handled in our economy - namely, does not each and every person or corporation has a credit rating? For example, if one rents property to a tenant, does the landlord check his credit history? Does one accept a check as payment from just anyone? Does a bank issue a vehicle loan, without prior investigation of income and liabilities? If one were to find it necessary to deal in any of several paper currencies, a knowledge of the market exchange rates or the willingness of your bank to accept the note as a deposit would be sufficient to inform the general population of the credit worthiness of any large scale note issuer (i.e. State government).

Beyond this, the benefits of a gold-silver system are enormous, but since this post is too long I'm stopping here.

 

[cadan]

This is one of the best short presentations (i.e. not book length) on gold, paper money, legal tender laws, the Constitution, etc,.

The Jacob Hornberger Show - November 20, 2010, The Future of Freedom Foundation 11/20/10 04:59PM futureoffreedom on USTREAM. Conference

 

[Oni7734]

montana has too

State considers return to gold, silver dollars

Utah's bill passed... I guess we'll see how it turns out.

Utah House Passes Bill Recognizing Gold, Silver as Legal Tender - FoxNews.com

 

[firehawk1]

This is just another sign of the breakup of The United States. We cannot survive with 50 different currencies. There would be no UNITED States any longer, and most states could not survive as a "country".

 

[mrjarrell]

This is just another sign of the breakup of The United States. We cannot survive with 50 different currencies. There would be no UNITED States any longer, and most states could not survive as a "country".

Perhaps not, but what we could do is go back to being THESE United States, rather than THE United States. We were meant to be THESE, not THE.

 

[firehawk1]

Perhaps not, but what we could do is go back to being THESE United States, rather than THE United States. We were meant to be THESE, not THE.

THE... THESE.... we refuse to control our borders, we've spent like there is no tomorrow so we're BROKE, states wanting to develop thier own currency, half the population are leeches contributing nothing, etc... etc... etc.... it really won't matter.

Ask yourself, is there going to be anything worth saving?

 

[Manan]

Governments can trade in gold and silver. But as far as I personally believe, I have yet to be able to eat gold or silver. My investment is in my garden, and canning skills.