US Soldier Shot for Drinking water

[Robert Richardson]

U.S. Marines -- Certified Counselors to the 72 Virgins Dating Club

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Just to throw my military two cents in here...

The reason we can get anywhere in the world in a couple days with a ship or sub is because we have our battle groups spread out through the world. Our base in Japan gives port to our ships and subs on a permanent basis.

Aircraft for the Air Force? Those bases we have spread around the world, again.

And Ryan, the battlegroups are good at showing force, not ground occupation forces. That is like saying that we can overtake a country simply with our Air Force. The AF can bomb the snot out of them but they are not capable of conducting the ground war to mop up areas of resistance, bring in supplies, etc.

 

[r3126]

For all you Secretarys of State and Secretarys of Defense (wanna-be's) I recommend that you read David Halberstam's "The Best and the Brightest" for a good look at how we get ourselves into these foreign "situations".

As a veteran of the Southeast Asian War Games (with a 2nd place medal) and with an interest in why I and many others were there, I have read as many books, articles and essays on the causes of that venture as I have been able to find. Regardless of your perceptions of him, I believe Halberstam has defined the process best!

The frightening thing is that I see the events that led to VietNam happening over and over. What is the old quote? "...those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it...."

My .02.

 

[Prometheus]

Wow guys. Just wow.

It's my personal opinion that if we were to follow our Founding Father's advice and leave other Countries to their own demise and concentrate on our own defense here at home, we'd be much better off.

But then again maybe the Founding Fathers were crazy, off their rocker, Tin Foil Hat wearing petards too. It's not Isolationism. It's called Nonintervention. I'd be willing to bet that if we shut down ALL our oversea's bases, brought ALL our troops and equipment home, concentrated on our own borders, not only would we save Trillions, but we'd be a much safer Country without sacrificing any freedoms.

Amazing how people pick and choose what parts of the Constitution they believe in (Second Amendment vs Private Property Rights) and which quotes of the Founders they believe in. There is a term for those people: Hypocrits.

Great post SE and if I could rep you again this soon I would.

+1 On nonintervention.

 

[Prometheus]

You never answered my questions: Are you comfortable fighting them here? Do you disagree the fight is drawing them to those countries, instead of here? Are you OK with completely isolating the US by banning any travel out of country?

Or are you willing to accept them?

You didn't ask me that question and you create a assinine question using a liberal strawman argument.

I'll play your silly game, just to get an answer out of you:

Are you comfortable fighting them here?

Ridiculous assertion. That somehow we (or I) would advocate ignoring their overseas actions and waiting till they show up here. Opposing nation building does not mean I am against attacking a REAL threat. In general I am against preemptive wars without rock solid proof of a real, clear and present danger.

Do you disagree the fight is drawing them to those countries, instead of here?

No and Yes. Yes it is drawing them to those countries. No it is not stopping them from coming here. They can't come here (in almost every instance) because their camels haven't learned to fly/swim yet.

Are you OK with completely isolating the US by banning any travel out of country?

Where in the world you get that crazy idea? Of course not. Americans should be free to come and go at will. Foreigners should be properly screened and our borders should be secured from invaders.

Now answer MY question:
[qu ote]Honestly, think about it. Do you really believe that iraq and afganistan are the only two contries 'hospitable' for terrorists? Heck virtually the entire continent of Africa is available.

Let me guess, darfur should be our next stop?

Somebody watched "Team America: World police" one too many times... you people do realize it was satire right? [/quote]

Let me ask a follow up, if you don't think iraq and afganistan are/were the only two "hospitable" countries for terrorists, please tell us: How many countries are you willing to invade (feel free to name them)? How much money are you willing to spend? and more importantly how many American lives are you willing to see lost in order to invade, destroy and then rebuild all these countries?

Sorry bucko but we simply cannot invade the hundredPLUS countries that can/do currently harbor terrorists. THAT is why you logic of invading "hospitable" countries is so laughable.

Attack a real threat. Let them suffer their losses and deal with the consequences. Tripoli ring a bell? Muslim pirates... we went in kicked butt AND LEFT IMMEDIATELY.

Those short on history forget, this country was dealing w/ the muslims threat a LONG time ago. This isn't new and in terms of percentages, 9-11 was less than what the pirates killed/stole on the high seas.

History... dang shame few have few it, let alone remember it.

 

[dburkhead]

So then those views shouldn't apply? Maybe then the First Amendment shouldn't apply anymore then? Nor the Second. I mean, people shouldn't be able to own a mounted 50cal. machine gun in their truck, right? Even though our Founding Fathers said that we have a right to own military style weapons to even the balance between federal army powers vs the civilian popluation?

With that logic, nothing the Founder's said should apply to modern day because they didn't face the same challenges.

You can do better than that. I'm sure George Washington had something to say on how the military should be equipped. Should we, then, follow those recommendations: how much black powder, how many musket balls, how much salt beef and parched corn, that sort of thing?

The Founding Fathers were great men but they were just men and were not infallible.

And they would be the first ones to tell you that. They were the ones who put an Amendment procedure into the Constitution. And, strangely enough, they gave the President the power to make Treaties and the Senate the power to ratify those treaties. The Constitution trumps speeches even those given by George Washington.

 

[BloodEclipse]

It's time America becomes completely self sufficient.

Show me a time in history when this was true?
Never has happened.
Trade has always been a part of what we stand for and a large part of what has made us successful.

 

[SavageEagle]

Show me a time in history when this was true?
Never has happened.
Trade has always been a part of what we stand for and a large part of what has made us successful.

I agree. It may be completely possible, but not any time soon. It would be nice though. We must start exporting more than we import though.

 

[BloodEclipse]

+1 On nonintervention.

You don't stop a bully by trying to avoid him.

You make a stand and punch him in the nose.

Most of Europe tried to not get involved and what did it get them? INVADED.

Life would be a boring place if you lived without friends.

Worse yet is if you pretended to be friends and the first time someone hit them your response would be to walk away.

 

[miguel]

Maybe we can send a carton of single-serve pork rinds for them to pass out to the kids?

 

[MoparMan]

Originally Posted by r3126
U.S. Marines -- Certified Counselors to the 72 Virgins Dating Club

 

[SavageEagle]

You don't stop a bully by trying to avoid him.

You make a stand and punch him in the nose.

Most of Europe tried to not get involved and what did it get them? INVADED.

Life would be a boring place if you lived without friends.

Worse yet is if you pretended to be friends and the first time someone hit them your response would be to walk away.

I'm not sure you understand Noninterventionalism. It's not like you're cutting all ties, not making friends, not trading, whatever. You still make treaties, you still have defense pacts, you still trade and travel, but you don't meddle in their affairs.

Like when we helped Iran overthrow the shaw. Or Afgans fight the Russians. We had no formal treaties. We had no right to step in. That's intervening in someone's business. That's what we shouldn't do. Iraq and Kuwait. We shouldn't have stepped in. Let Saddam take the oil fields. If he jacks up the prices, get the oil somewhere else.

The Trade Embargos, Sanctions, all the UN interventionalism, that's all against what our Founding Fathers wanted. That is force against another Country where we have no business being or messing with them.

What about Iran and NK and their ballistic Nukes you say? Missle defense. Lasers. We can defend ourselves at home without being in another Country. We don't need a missle defense shield in the satelite countries of Russia.

It's just like with our LE. We don't station a police officer in front of each house to prevent a break-in. Instead we encourage people to be self-reliant and defend themselves. We should do the same with our allies. Force them to rely on themselves for defense. Just like if your neighbor's house, whom happens to be a good friend of yours, is being overrun with burglars, you would try to stop them, right? You wouldn't question everyone that knocked on the door would you? No. If they broke in, you would go there and try to stop them using force against force.

Same with a friendly Country you have a defense pact with. You don't send your troops over if the enemy is running exercises or is being diplomatic at their door. You wait until the enemy acts with aggression against the friend before you respond with force.

This still falls within the idea of Noninterventionalism because you don't intervene in every agressive act on the planet, just those that affect you or your friends you have pacts with.

I didn't think this was that hard to understand.

 

[Mgderf]

@#$% ^&*(% !!!!!
And that's all I have to say about that.

^ I'll second that, and add :wtf::bigballs::fawk::fawk::fawk:!

 

[Z350Godfather]

Do we need to be more respectful of their culture over there? Maybe maybe not, I say not. But to shoot the soldier for it? If I was over there, I'd say that officer would have a few more holes to breath out of if you know what I mean. Of course, the Dem's would hang me out to dry like a b$*ch... a-holes. Librealism is truely a mental disorder...

 

[Phil502]

I drank and ate in front of a muslim during Ramadan once...I felt kinda bad, because he was thirsty as hell and wouldn't even have a glass of water...but we joked about it, and he didn't shoot me. He called me an *******, but no shots were fired, and laughs were had.

Not a popular viewpoint sometimes...but its not the religion, its the people. Granted, the religion is the excuse they give for being intolerant scumbags, but having known a few muslims, and finding them to be decent people, I have a hard time thinking that just because you read the Koran instead of the Bible, it makes you a wild eyed fundamentalist.

Religion can be perverted to any purpose man puts it to...Muslims aren't the only people to take religious fervor too far, although I'll grant that they corner the market. Shooting someone who doesn't hold with your beliefs, though....I've heard of this kind of thing happening before....the tools have been different, but its been a common theme throughout the history of humanity.

I dunno....I most certainly am not trying to excuse this behavior, but before we all go off raving about how muslims are barbarians once again, realize that people of other religions have done things just as bad and worse. Be careful about painting with too broad a brush, it limits your perspective.

I ate and drank and smoked in front of a Muslim at Ramadan and he was fine with it, of course he was my friend. I think this one is about the Policeman not the religion but still Islam is less tolerant then any religion I know of TODAY.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Wow guys. Just wow.

It's my personal opinion that if we were to follow our Founding Father's advice and leave other Countries to their own demise and concentrate on our own defense here at home, we'd be much better off.

This.

I'd like to see our gov't dump billions of foreign spent money at home.

Then again, like it would do any good... The amount they spend already, we all should have gold plated toilets.

 

[Spot Me 2]

Time for the Ramadan Bomb-a-thon.

 

[SavageEagle]

Time for the Ramadan Bomb-a-thon.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iKuMVqht4U[/ame][ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4iLIzeLKKw"][/ame]

 

[Phil502]

I like the new end table.