Unbelievable! No wonder they're failing miserably...

[Sinner Man]

Wow. Don't buy a Mazda if you are unhappy with a ford!! That was way stupid. At least it wasn't an Edge she had troubles with and then bought a CX-7. That's the same exact vehicle!

Ford. Jeez. Yeah I'd never spend my hard earned money on one.

 

[jtmarine1911]

I bought my 96 4cyl S-10 in 97 , it now has a little over 186,000 miles . I've had to replace a starter , alternator , tranny seals and the fan blade .

I figure this is routine type stuff and have been happy with the truck over all .

People confuse routine maitainance and consumables as quality issues.

I just had to change the OEM brake pads on the Wifey's Liberty wednesday, it has 37000mi on it with an agressive female driver behind the wheel, guess I should bitch and moan and swear to never buy a Jeep again! I think not!

 

[2ridgebacks]

People confuse routine maitainance and consumables as quality issues.

I just had to change the OEM brake pads on the Wifey's Liberty wednesday, it has 37000mi on it with an agressive female driver behind the wheel, guess I should bitch and moan and swear to never buy a Jeep again! I think not!

This is something that I never realized until I met my wife. Almost everyone I knew before her drove a domestic vehicle (I don't remember too much bitching either). She had a Honduh and many of her friends drove other imports.
Most of the people that I knew did their own maintenance. The conversations that I heard amongst her friends indicated that their cars went to the dealer for everything.
Most of the people that I know that maintain anything rarely do it on the recommended schedule and it is much closer to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". She as well as her friends followed the manual or the dealer suggested maintenance to a "tee" and thought nothing of the cost. Ex: After we were married, the dealer wanted over $2200 in preventative maint. on her 98 Accord. This was brakes, timing belt, all the seals on the front of the motor, water pump, and other assorted items.
The point being, the demographics of car buyers have been vastly different between domestic and import buyers. This is changing, but the situation has done the domestics no favors in long term reliability. The typical import buyer until the last few years didn't know what a spark plug was, what it did, or where it went. They didn't want to know or care what it cost. The domestic buyer often knew exactly that and had their own ideas about brand, when to change, do you really need to change them all, etc. I know many who have done their own maint. and had durability on par with any other vehicle. I also know many who take their domestics to the dealer for service and also get reliability/durability on par or above other vehicles. A Ford Explorer that was the second one ever built comes to mind. The truck had over 400k on it when the owner retired from the plant that it was built in. That was 7 years ago and he was leaving for a FL golf trip that afternoon when he picked up from the dealer for routine maintenance.

 

[matthock]

The dust to dust report measures all of the energy that goes into producing, maintaining, and operating vehicles with the Prius worse than a Navigator. I compare my Cherokee Sport as similar to the Wrangler on cost and it rates very well, due mostly to the average useful lifespan. My RX8 does not fair very well and I can tell you from experience that you can watch the gas gauge go down while glancing at it.

I was interested in Dust to Dust when I first heard about it a while back, but since then, I found out it's been pretty thoroughly debunked. They're pretty shady about their testing methods - they refuse to disclose most of the basis for the numbers they calculate, something that's very unusual in a scholarly type report. This is, in part, because it is produced by a company whose primary interest is market research for Detroit - they have a pretty strong interest in maintaining the status quo.

Beyond that, some of the few things that they have admitted to using in their calculations are blatantly wrong - for example, it rates the hummer as better than the prius, but that's because they rate the hummer for an expected lifetime of 300k miles, and the prius for only 100k miles, despite the fact that prius are known to get well more than that (there's at least one documented case of a prius used as a taxi in NYC still going strong after over a million miles).

 

[hotfarmboy1]

This is something that I never realized until I met my wife. Almost everyone I knew before her drove a domestic vehicle (I don't remember too much bitching either). She had a Honduh and many of her friends drove other imports.
Most of the people that I knew did their own maintenance. The conversations that I heard amongst her friends indicated that their cars went to the dealer for everything.
Most of the people that I know that maintain anything rarely do it on the recommended schedule and it is much closer to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". She as well as her friends followed the manual or the dealer suggested maintenance to a "tee" and thought nothing of the cost. Ex: After we were married, the dealer wanted over $2200 in preventative maint. on her 98 Accord. This was brakes, timing belt, all the seals on the front of the motor, water pump, and other assorted items.
The point being, the demographics of car buyers have been vastly different between domestic and import buyers. This is changing, but the situation has done the domestics no favors in long term reliability. The typical import buyer until the last few years didn't know what a spark plug was, what it did, or where it went. They didn't want to know or care what it cost. The domestic buyer often knew exactly that and had their own ideas about brand, when to change, do you really need to change them all, etc. I know many who have done their own maint. and had durability on par with any other vehicle. I also know many who take their domestics to the dealer for service and also get reliability/durability on par or above other vehicles. A Ford Explorer that was the second one ever built comes to mind. The truck had over 400k on it when the owner retired from the plant that it was built in. That was 7 years ago and he was leaving for a FL golf trip that afternoon when he picked up from the dealer for routine maintenance.

This is very very true! Just about any vehicle when well maintained as it is supposed to be will be as reliable or more reliable than most others on the road. Not to say you don't occasionally get a lemon, that's a given. But normally those lemons are at the begining of a run of a new model, or new year and its cause they haven't worked all the bugs out. For example my 2000 focus. I know of many people that had nothing but problems with their 00/01 focus but mine was dependable as can be till I blew the diff from being too hard on it. That's nothing but my own fault though. Before that the most I ever had to do to that car was replace an 02 sensor other than your basic maintenance. And it had 135k hard miles on it when the diff went.

If you don't follow the recommended maintenance on your vehicles, or at least keep it maintained and repaired you will likely end up having alot more problems than if you were to keep it well maintenanced. I've seen both sides over and over. Working at a Ford dealer as a tech for 6 years you tend to notice this kind of stuff. And it isn't just Ford, its any company. For example my mom's 07 fusion, she puts alot of miles on for her work, and is over 70k miles already. Only thing we've ever done to it in the way of repairs is tires, cause she is hard as heck on tires, and normal maintenance like oil changes. Otherwise, no issues whatsoever, and she's hard on cars.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

We should all take a lesson from your example. Maybe after your Father loses his pension, benefits and you realize that GM put the shirt on your back for a large part of your life you will see the error of your ways.

My father has no pension and benefits (health insurance) were taken away years ago as they should be for all retirees, or, at very least, bought out as the legacy costs choked it to death (e.g. GM gives a retiree say 50K and cancels his health insurance). GM needs to make cars not be a quasi-governmental medicare program.

My father was compensated for his services. GM gave my family nothing, with the exception of allowing me to sit in an XM-1 tank in 1979. Great day.

GM should have undergone this pain twenty-five years ago in a reorganization. GM should have jettisoned its bloated legacy costs and build cars for what the customers, not government, want to buy.

 

[jtmarine1911]

This is something that I never realized until I met my wife. Almost everyone I knew before her drove a domestic vehicle (I don't remember too much bitching either). She had a Honduh and many of her friends drove other imports.
Most of the people that I knew did their own maintenance. The conversations that I heard amongst her friends indicated that their cars went to the dealer for everything.
Most of the people that I know that maintain anything rarely do it on the recommended schedule and it is much closer to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". She as well as her friends followed the manual or the dealer suggested maintenance to a "tee" and thought nothing of the cost. Ex: After we were married, the dealer wanted over $2200 in preventative maint. on her 98 Accord. This was brakes, timing belt, all the seals on the front of the motor, water pump, and other assorted items.
The point being, the demographics of car buyers have been vastly different between domestic and import buyers. This is changing, but the situation has done the domestics no favors in long term reliability. The typical import buyer until the last few years didn't know what a spark plug was, what it did, or where it went. They didn't want to know or care what it cost. The domestic buyer often knew exactly that and had their own ideas about brand, when to change, do you really need to change them all, etc. I know many who have done their own maint. and had durability on par with any other vehicle. I also know many who take their domestics to the dealer for service and also get reliability/durability on par or above other vehicles. A Ford Explorer that was the second one ever built comes to mind. The truck had over 400k on it when the owner retired from the plant that it was built in. That was 7 years ago and he was leaving for a FL golf trip that afternoon when he picked up from the dealer for routine maintenance.

WOW $2200! Now that's a lot of PM!

Now on many of the imports I can see having the timing belt changed per OEM recommended schedule because many of them run interference engines in their cars. I really don't care for those at all but IMHO it was a sales scam. It pretty much guarunteed that at the "End of useful life" the engine was at the end of its useful life. Cause if the timing belt broke then the valves hit pistons, which means atleast a head rebuild and if you are unlucky, new slugs as well. This motivates the owner to lean toward purchasing a new vehicle that comes with a warranty.

That is one main reason I am sticking with my small-blocks, L4s and my Cummins. If I need a "special tool" to work on my engine, then I don't want it!

 

[RelicHound]

seems like everytime I buy a new or newer vehicle its nothing but headaches after the first year.
my last 2 vehicles have been dodge and I will say that I will NEVER buy another chrysler product. the first was a 2002 dodge ram 4X4 quad cab,I bought it used but it only had 15,000 miles on it...the very first week I had it I was heading to work and was going down a hill where a stop light was at the bottom,hit my brakes and they went to the floor and the only thing to stop me was the nice new lexus SUV that I rear ended,the front brake lines where melted through because of the way they ran them...who puts rubber lines near the exhaust? got that fixed and a month later my four wheel drive went out,after that the tranny started jumping out of gear so I got rid of it.
after that bought an 04 dodge durango,after the first month I started having problems with the electrical crap in it like the locks,windows,lights etc etc..Id be going down the road at night and my lights would just go out....all of em. got that fixed and its seemed to be a pretty decent vehicle up until about 2 weeks ago when I was driving down hwy 41,when I would take off from a light it seemed to struggle to get out of 1st into second gear so I figured Id make my way back and stop by the dodge dealer ship to have it looked at.
well I was driving along and all of the sudden my truck started vibrating real bad every time I hit my brakes,then it would jerk real hard to the right every time Id hit my brakes,I made it to the dealer ship and when I pulled into the lot I hit my brakes and I had none,thankfully I was going slow enough it didnt take much to stop.
they said my calipers had froze up on both side and something with the rear brakes had gotten so hot they pretty much welded themselves together,with what it cost to repair I could have bought a small car

my wife drives a newer ford taurus and it has been a very reliable car and years ago I had a 1992 ford F150 with 260,000 miles on it and the only thing I ever had to do to it was put a new starter in it and it seemed that straight 6 it had in it had more power than both of the V8 dodges I have owned.

 

[IndyBeerman]

they said my calipers had froze up on both side and something with the rear brakes had gotten so hot they pretty much welded themselves together,with what it cost to repair I could have bought a small car

You my friend have been the victim of a ABS FAILURE!

This is exactly what happened to my July 97 manufactured 1998 Chevy Silverado extended cab 4x4.

GM had a bad batch of defective ABS units in 97 that was causing calipers and wheel cylinders to not return to their normal position and causing the brakes to slightly rub enough to almost heat the disk and drums to glow.

It superheated my brake fluid so bad that it baked it a dark brown and the dealer initally said it was brake fluid contamination.

Made the dealer send some out (along with me sending a sample out) for analysis and came back clean as a whistle for contaminants. That's when they did some digging and found out that the unit I had was a 97 ABS unit that had a recall on it.

They replaced it with a new unit and drove it till the day I sold it last year with no other problems, 10 years 177,000 miles.

Now own a 2008 Isuzu Ascender, I know everyone says it's a import, but IT"S NOT!!! Even though it's says Isuzu on it, it's a REBADGE GMC Envoy made in Moraine, Ohio.

Saved a ton of money that way also, the Envoy was priced at 38,700, mine 35,700, they then gave me a 3000.00 dealer discount, 2700.00 more off the sticker and a 9000.00 factory discount for a mere cost of 21,000 and they gave me a 7000.00 trade in on my truck, which btw they sold it as we was signing the paper work on the new vehicle.

To this date 1 year problem free and hope it performs and holds up as all my GM products have.