"Two to the chest, one to the head" Really?

[ATM]

...I don't expect a real fight to look exactly like "dot torture"...

That would be an elaborate and very interesting fight.

I might need to scoot up a little closer.

 

[iChokePeople]

That would be an elaborate and very interesting fight.

I might need to scoot up a little closer.

Only works against the Brits.

 

[Denny347]

Anyone who has been around any kind of pistol training has heard this one. But try as I might, I am unable to find a documented situation where a law enforcement officer or citizen has accomplished it with a pistol.

My buddy did just that. Suspect and he fired at the same time. My friend took a bullet and the suspect got 2 to the chest and 1 to the head...just as my buddy intended. We do some of that training during inservice.

 

[mercop]

Your buddy told you that he consciously fired two to the chest and then targeted the head with the final shot?

 

[Mackey]

Your buddy told you that he consciously fired two to the chest and then targeted the head with the final shot?

Seems clear that's what he said.

 

[mettle]

George
Your experience and knowledge speaks for itself.
Well written.
I think it is a movie and Hollywood cliche.

 

[Denny347]

Your buddy told you that he consciously fired two to the chest and then targeted the head with the final shot?

Yup "I shot him 3 times, 2 to the chest and 1 to the head just like we were taught." He is a very good shot.

 

[mercop]

OK, that is the first one that I know of on US soil using a pistol. Glad it worked out for your buddy.- George

 

[HinesFan]

I have been in the Navy for 15 years and in all of our self defense training it is shoot center mass until no longer needed...

 

[iChokePeople]

I have been in the Navy for 15 years and in all of our self defense training it is shoot center mass until no longer needed...

That's why you boys take Marines along. What if the bg is wearing a vest? There has to be a point at which you quickly assess the situation and make a decision. If you've fired x rounds center mass, believe you're hitting, and not having any effect, you just keep on doing the same thing? Not me, thanks. Time to try something different.

 

[JoshuaRWhite]

Are you sure about that?

Yep. Nothing on the market out performed Glaser Safety Slugs. They may be old but they work wonders. I carry them and Aquila IQ rounds, just incase I need to shoot through a vest.

 

[Prometheus]

Just transition to the head on their way down...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zJlsc8GU50


I like the shoot them to the ground approach

 

[Indy Wing Chun]

Yep. Nothing on the market out performed Glaser Safety Slugs. They may be old but they work wonders. I carry them and Aquila IQ rounds, just incase I need to shoot through a vest.

Ummm, "nothing"?
Without getting into a fruitless ballistics debate, how do you figure you're going to have the time to transition to an armor piercing round once you realize the BG is wearing armor?

I seriously hope I've gone colorblind and I'm just not seeing your purple text.

Personally, if my ammunition uses the word "safety" to describe it, it better be manufactured by Nerf.

 

[JoshuaRWhite]

Ummm, "nothing"?
Without getting into a fruitless ballistics debate, how do you figure you're going to have the time to transition to an armor piercing round once you realize the BG is wearing armor?

I seriously hope I've gone colorblind and I'm just not seeing your purple text.

Personally, if my ammunition uses the word "safety" to describe it, it better be manufactured by Nerf.

Well since the first 3 rounds out of my gun will be IQ rounds body armor is a moot point. Besides, no crackhead ghetto City Trender will be wearing body armor. And I've never seen a more devastating round than the safety slug. A few years ago when that SBPD officer got killed his partner shot the guy 5 times in the face with Safety slugs, they found chunks of the slugs burried into his chest cavity. Tore shreds through his neck and vital organs.

 

[Double T]

I always thought 2 to the chest was to drop them, and the 1 to the head was to put them out of misery. Like a mob/hitman thing.

Also, just in speaking terms, if someone does drop in two shots and you go for a second set of double taps (or a head shot). Gravity will pull the head into your line of fire.

This is all on paper of course. I was in a karate class and went to roundhouse to the sternum diring end of class sparring...and the guy rather than standing up to take the shot (like normal), crouched deeper into his fighting stance and took it to the throat. I was very lucky to not have killed him...he almost passed out.

Needless to say, no 1 person will react the same as someone else. One person may fall over. Another may get an adrenaline and endorphine rush and come at you like superman...or return fire.

You can say it all you want, but until you've experienced a need for it's use...you will never know. Practice makes perfect. And you will only ever perform as well under stress as your practice routine allows you to. It has to become second nature...like fist fighting to me

 

[iChokePeople]

mercop, I'd like to apologize for any role I may have played in taking your thread toward the current mall ninja/magic bullets/dim mak death kicks discussion.

IMHO, the "Mozambique Drill", by whatever name, started life as a good idea for a drill to deal help people practice for one particular possibility in a gunfight -- the possibility that, for whatever reason, their shots to "center mass" or upper chest or the thoracic cavity were not achieving the expected/desired result. It does not seem to be his intent that it become a tactic, or a[n] SOP, or anything like that, just a drill. Like so many other things, it grew a head and a tail and a life of its own. In that form, it's probably bad. If people are practicing this as the be-all/end-all battle technique, it's silly and I'm sure Col Cooper would shake his head and chuckle. If they're using it as one drill in their big bag o' drills to help them with one particular possibility in a gunfight, as it seems he intended, I think it's a great drill. I'm unaware of one single gunfight anywhere, ever, in which the fight went just like the dot torture drill... but I still think it's a valuable drill and I'll keep doing it. esrice accidentally (?) created a new drill for my big bag o' drills recently, by the way, in the scenario he posted. Will a gunfight in my life ever go like that? I hope not, but there are elements of it that, for me, constitute what I believe is a valuable drill. Not 'tactic', or 'procedure', or 'battle plan', just 'drill'.

 

[Indy Wing Chun]

mercop, I'd like to apologize for any role I may have played in taking your thread toward the current mall ninja/magic bullets/dim mak death kicks discussion.

IMHO, the "Mozambique Drill", by whatever name, started life as a good idea for a drill to deal help people practice for one particular possibility in a gunfight -- the possibility that, for whatever reason, their shots to "center mass" or upper chest or the thoracic cavity were not achieving the expected/desired result. It does not seem to be his intent that it become a tactic, or a[n] SOP, or anything like that, just a drill. Like so many other things, it grew a head and a tail and a life of its own. In that form, it's probably bad. If people are practicing this as the be-all/end-all battle technique, it's silly and I'm sure Col Cooper would shake his head and chuckle. If they're using it as one drill in their big bag o' drills to help them with one particular possibility in a gunfight, as it seems he intended, I think it's a great drill. I'm unaware of one single gunfight anywhere, ever, in which the fight went just like the dot torture drill... but I still think it's a valuable drill and I'll keep doing it. esrice accidentally (?) created a new drill for my big bag o' drills recently, by the way, in the scenario he posted. Will a gunfight in my life ever go like that? I hope not, but there are elements of it that, for me, constitute what I believe is a valuable drill. Not 'tactic', or 'procedure', or 'battle plan', just 'drill'.

Very well put. I agree. EVERYTHING you do (whether it is shooting, combatives, CPU programming) is a drill until you do the actual thing. Drills are designed to train certain concepts and priciples in isolation. Like Choke wrote, as long as you (royal) understand that, drills are great, even invaluable. Once you start thinking the drill is "the way it is", THAT is where the point of diminishing returns hits. I try to convey this to my martial art/self-defense students all of the time.

I really think Choke hit it on the head here.

Hee hee, Dim Mak!

 

[Birds Away]

mercop, I'd like to apologize for any role I may have played in taking your thread toward the current mall ninja/magic bullets/dim mak death kicks discussion.

IMHO, the "Mozambique Drill", by whatever name, started life as a good idea for a drill to deal help people practice for one particular possibility in a gunfight -- the possibility that, for whatever reason, their shots to "center mass" or upper chest or the thoracic cavity were not achieving the expected/desired result. It does not seem to be his intent that it become a tactic, or a[n] SOP, or anything like that, just a drill. Like so many other things, it grew a head and a tail and a life of its own. In that form, it's probably bad. If people are practicing this as the be-all/end-all battle technique, it's silly and I'm sure Col Cooper would shake his head and chuckle. If they're using it as one drill in their big bag o' drills to help them with one particular possibility in a gunfight, as it seems he intended, I think it's a great drill. I'm unaware of one single gunfight anywhere, ever, in which the fight went just like the dot torture drill... but I still think it's a valuable drill and I'll keep doing it. esrice accidentally (?) created a new drill for my big bag o' drills recently, by the way, in the scenario he posted. Will a gunfight in my life ever go like that? I hope not, but there are elements of it that, for me, constitute what I believe is a valuable drill. Not 'tactic', or 'procedure', or 'battle plan', just 'drill'.

Finally, someone who "gets it". Now, can we stop picking nits and move on?

 

[esrice]

My buddy did just that. Suspect and he fired at the same time. My friend took a bullet and the suspect got 2 to the chest and 1 to the head...just as my buddy intended. We do some of that training during inservice.

Wasn't Koe was it?

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/training/officer-down-sound-guns

 

[TMU317]

Wasn't Koe was it?

Officer Down: To the Sound of Guns - Training - LawOfficer.com

That incident ended with three rounds in the chest, two rounds in the head. Not 2 and 1.