Trump: Fix 'Massive Problem' of Mentally Ill, Let Gun Owners Be

[churchmouse]

So how do you stop it? How many people have their rights denied that wouldn't actually harm others? Who decides what is the criteria? How do you make it so that the criteria isn't politically motivated?

That is the question before us.......How

 

[steveh_131]

That is the question before us.......How

Changing each other. Participating in communities. Looking out for your neighbor. Charities. Proper self defense precautions. Etc.

Obviously, telling people about Jesus is the greatest method in my mind but some won't agree with that.

There are lots of ways to improve the world. Why must we immediately turn to the government to save us?

Regardless, some things will never change. People will always be trying to kill each other. Accepting it and doing what you can, as an individual, to prevent it is the best we're gonna get.

 

[indiucky]

I realize Trump is a suck face wanna be politician but it does raise a good question.

As every one since George Washington..........And he may have been faking it.....

"I just want to go back to Mount Vernon and make whisky, breed mules, and.....Wait a minute....President George Washington...Hmmmm...Kind of has ring to it...."

 

[Sticky]

More pandering from Trump. He is no friends of gun owners.

Exactly. Most of you are likely aware of the following:

Donald Trump on Gun Control

" For assault weapon ban, waiting period, & background check

I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000 "

 

[MisterChester]

I don't think it's so much a case as more freedom keeping guns away from the crazies as it is more government not keeping them away from the crazies. Much like with drugs and other physical items the government likes to restrict the laws don't keep them out of the hands of the people who really want to get them. But those laws do get in the way of honest ordinary people just trying to go about their business without having to ask Uncle Sam for permission. I can't stock up on pseudoephedrine when it's on sale and I have to show my drivers license just to buy a box, but those restrictions sure aren't stopping the meth junkies from getting their fix.

And before anyone goes all absurd in the extreme with things like "why don't we get rid of laws against murder since they don't stop people killing each other" let's all just try not to get stupid. Many of us are simply tired of hearing that more government is the solution to every problem because that assertion is easily demonstrated as false. Some problems can't be solved by laws. Evil cannot be legislated away.

+1

 

[Timjoebillybob]

There is no step in the right direction that includes the government.

If you have a family member who you believe may be violently insane, but currently hasn't harmed anyone. How do you go about getting them checked out if they don't wish to go in of their own free will. Let's use Sandy Hook as an example, how do you do so without the govt? Mom knew he had problems but unfortunately was too slow to start the process to get him committed. But how do you get someone committed without their consent without the govt?

So this is a short list of what trumps been saying


5) Increase the size and strength of our military. Any right minded person should want the biggest and best military on the planet by far.
Now i dont know about you, but if he does half of that, or only 1/6 of the few things i've listed, it will be a great accomplishment for this country, better than the last 6+ years that is for sure.

Say what? Increase the size of our military? You must be joking. Cut it, cut it hard. We cut our personnel and bases in half we would still have the biggest and best military on the planet. One of our SSBN can take out pretty much any country on earth. China and Russia and maybe India would be about the only ones it wouldn't be able to totally destroy, but even those three, one of them would cripple them.

OK.........Just curious how this can be rectified.
Mental issue dealt with accordingly.
Folks with paper trails proving psychosis can not own (legally) a gun.

Where I have a problem is with the "paper trail" being just enough, perhaps enough for a eval, but just being enough to be put on the banned list?

 

[jamil]

That is the question before us.......How

My question was more about how do you stop it with more government without preventing harmless people from exercising their 2A rights?

If you just want to stop the symptoms, which is, crazy people killing innocent people, we can do that. But you and me and everyone else will lose most of our freedom.

If you want to fix the cause, then we need to fix the quality of people's character. I suppose government can play a role in that. It can stop doing the things that tend to promote bad character traits, and stop hindering things that promote good character.

 

[churchmouse]

Changing each other. Participating in communities. Looking out for your neighbor. Charities. Proper self defense precautions. Etc.

Obviously, telling people about Jesus is the greatest method in my mind but some won't agree with that.

There are lots of ways to improve the world. Why must we immediately turn to the government to save us?

Regardless, some things will never change. People will always be trying to kill each other. Accepting it and doing what you can, as an individual, to prevent it is the best we're gonna get.

Man you have a lot more faith in your fellow man than I do.

Good ideas but someone has to watch the store.

If this would work we (the Mod staff) would not be needed. Same thing on a much smaller scale.

 

[Lowe0]

How does Trump plan to pay for this?

 

[churchmouse]

My question was more about how do you stop it with more government without preventing harmless people from exercising their 2A rights?

If you just want to stop the symptoms, which is, crazy people killing innocent people, we can do that. But you and me and everyone else will lose most of our freedom.

If you want to fix the cause, then we need to fix the quality of people's character. I suppose government can play a role in that. It can stop doing the things that tend to promote bad character traits, and stop hindering things that promote good character.

If the citizens that know of the folks with the issues would step up and speak out several of these tragedy's could be averted. No one does.

I agree, how to fix it is the issue.

 

[MisterChester]

My question was more about how do you stop it with more government without preventing harmless people from exercising their 2A rights?

If you just want to stop the symptoms, which is, crazy people killing innocent people, we can do that. But you and me and everyone else will lose most of our freedom.

If you want to fix the cause, then we need to fix the quality of people's character. I suppose government can play a role in that. It can stop doing the things that tend to promote bad character traits, and stop hindering things that promote good character.

You can't legislate character, though. The government can stop enabling those who will abuse the system, but that's about it. How would they promote character? Heck, half of the people on INGO would want to do the exact opposite simply because it's the government promoting a certain lifestyle. In an individualist society it just won't work. Everyone's out for themselves.

What we need is a national conversation about people being d***s to other people.

 

[steveh_131]

If you have a family member who you believe may be violently insane, but currently hasn't harmed anyone. How do you go about getting them checked out if they don't wish to go in of their own free will. Let's use Sandy Hook as an example, how do you do so without the govt? Mom knew he had problems but unfortunately was too slow to start the process to get him committed. But how do you get someone committed without their consent without the govt?

That's a tough call. There are folks out there who would want us 'checked in' because of our SHTF paranoia and gun hoarding. Should there be a process for stripping a person of his or her liberty because someone thinks our behavior is 'abnormal'?

If someone is crazy enough to try to hurt someone or their property, government is welcome to step in.

Man you have a lot more faith in your fellow man than I do.

Good ideas but someone has to watch the store.

No I don't. We live in a fallen world. What I have faith in is a government's ability to behave just as evil as an individual, but with a much larger gun.

If this would work we (the Mod staff) would not be needed. Same thing on a much smaller scale.

I'm not promoting anarchy. The same rules against violence still apply.

 

[steveh_131]

If the citizens that know of the folks with the issues would step up and speak out several of these tragedy's could be averted. No one does.

Then let's start speaking out. Let's start looking out for each other. Want to change the world? Want to do what you can to prevent this from happening again? We should start in our own families, with our own neighbors and in our own churches.

 

[jamil]

You can't legislate character, though. The government can stop enabling those who will abuse the system, but that's about it. How would they promote character? Heck, half of the people on INGO would want to do the exact opposite simply because it's the government promoting a certain lifestyle. In an individualist society it just won't work. Everyone's out for themselves.

What we need is a national conversation about people being d***s to other people.

Please notice that the things I said the government could do start with the word "stop". That means less government and not more. I'm not proposing that anyone legislates character. The government already tries to legislate character anyway. I suggest they stop that.

I also didn't say I want the government to promote good character. How can it? I said that the government can stop doing things that promote bad character traits, like perpetuating the welfare state, and it can stop doing things that hinder good character traits, like all the stupid **** they teach in public schools.

In other words, the government would do better to do less.

Promoting values must come the individuals, and various organizations that make up society.

 

[Cygnus]

Meh.



More government. I want a politician who doesn't think that the solution to every problem is more government. I would like one who says "Bad people do bad things. More government will not change this. Let's take steps to protect ourselves and each other as individuals."

How does this equate to more governemnt?
They could allocate more dollars to mental health services. In other words they could fund it without running it or they could pass a bill to force insurance companies to pay for things like giving mental healh equal standing with physical health. They can often intersect. As was sadly illustrated yesterday.

 

[churchmouse]

Then let's start speaking out. Let's start looking out for each other. Want to change the world? Want to do what you can to prevent this from happening again? We should start in our own families, with our own neighbors and in our own churches.

In all seriousness we have stood for all you preach. We have beat the drum and lifted up those around us. Some of the attempts bore fruit but people are fickle and lazy. The easy path is bright and alluring.

I have lost all hope of effecting change. Yes, a fallen world.
My effort is now focused on family and their survival in this world.
Beyond that.........

Not a quieter just tired.

 

[Denny347]

If you have a family member who you believe may be violently insane, but currently hasn't harmed anyone. How do you go about getting them checked out if they don't wish to go in of their own free will. Let's use Sandy Hook as an example, how do you do so without the govt? Mom knew he had problems but unfortunately was too slow to start the process to get him committed. But how do you get someone committed without their consent without the govt?

If they are saying/doing something that leads you to believe they pose a risk to themselves or others, call 911 and we can place them under an Immediate Detention under code 12-26-4-1. This is just temporary. For someone to be committed to an institution for a long duration, the family, with the help of doctors, must file in probate court for a Mental Writ. We then serve the writ on the person, much like a warrant, and transport them to the facility the judge ordered.

 

[steveh_131]

How does this equate to more governemnt?
They could allocate more dollars to mental health services. In other words they could fund it without running it or they could pass a bill to force insurance companies to pay for things like giving mental healh equal standing with physical health. They can often intersect. As was sadly illustrated yesterday.

I don't want my tax dollars allocated to mental health services. The government can and will **** it up. That is what they do. Yes, even if all they do is fund it they will **** it up.

I don't want them forcing my insurance companies to cover things that will surely raise my rates. The ACA did enough of that.

All of this represents more government.

If you want those things, donate to charities that provide those things.

 

[Cygnus]

If they are saying/doing something that leads you to believe they pose a risk to themselves or others, call 911 and we can place them under an Immediate Detention under code 12-26-4-1. This is just temporary. For someone to be committed to an institution for a long duration, the family, with the help of doctors, must file in probate court for a Mental Writ. We then serve the writ on the person, much like a warrant, and transport them to the facility the judge ordered.

I love it when you guys come out to help us with things like that. Sometimes I even have my own special one that is for 3 days. Signed by the doc with me as his/her agent. If the person answers my questions wrong......you all come out. Called a pink sheet out here

 

[jamil]

I don't want my tax dollars allocated to mental health services. The government can and will **** it up. That is what they do. Yes, even if all they do is fund it they will **** it up.

I don't want them forcing my insurance companies to cover things that will surely raise my rates. The ACA did enough of that.

All of this represents more government.

If you want those things, donate to charities that provide those things.

When the government funds it. There are always strings attached. Someone who has motives other than the purpose seems to always be at the other end of the string.