Trespassing Question

[IndyBeerman]

Tonight I told a man to leave my property and that he was trespassing. He went to leave and then came back toward me, bowed up and got in my face. I stood my ground and told him to leave as he was trespassing. (Argument between him and his ex girlfriend took place on my property, he was not invited.) He then went around me, walked another 75 feet closer to my home, away from his car. I kept thinking, do I really want to use REASONABLE force to get this guy off my property? He said he was going to retrieve an item in the yard that was his. He got it and left.

Officer Hawkins of the Fishers Police Department gave me his "word of caution" speech and told me that I could not use any force to get a person off of my property. He went further to say that only law enforcement could do so if a formal complaint was filed, then served to the person, and that they had to then break that trespassing notice in order to be charged. IS THIS CORRECT?!?! Let's hear it you lawyer types!

I was armed, certainly would not have drawn, and managed to keep my cool.

If I'm not misunderstanding, the above highlighted BOWED UP meant that he raised his bow with a arrow loaded???

If so, this was an act of aggression with a weapon and getting into your face is intimidation along with the tresspasing. Nice little trifecta.

 

[CarmelHP]

It WAS NOT his property. That's a whole 'nother story. He was NOT invited.

You mean he was entering the property to commit a robbery?

IC 35-42-5-1
Robbery
Sec. 1. A person who knowingly or intentionally takes property from another person or from the presence of another person:
(1) by using or threatening the use of force on any person; or
(2) by putting any person in fear;
commits robbery, a Class C felony. However, the offense is a Class B felony if it is committed while armed with a deadly weapon or results in bodily injury to any person other than a defendant, and a Class A felony if it results in serious bodily injury to any person other than a defendant.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Just because Hawkins is a LEO does not mean he knows every detail of every law, even if he pretends to by giving you advice that does not seem reasonable to me or correct according to the statutes provided above.

^^This. No offense to LEOs here. It is the job of an attorney that you hire to do so to represent your interests and advise you correctly on the law and its effect on you. I would recommend hiring one for such questions. If you get 1000 different answers on this, all you will have is 500 answers you got on the internet. Your lawyer will only give you one answer, but it will be one he will be willing to stand up in court and defend.

Your choice which is of greater value to you.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Believe me if it needs to go to that I will go down that road. This was for discussion purposes, NOT legal advice. If I talk to a lawyer nobody on this forum gets to discuss it, think about it, and test their own judgment. At least 2 other posters had similar questions and experiences.

 

[Indy317]

No offense to LEOs here. It is the job of an attorney that you hire to do so to represent your interests and advise you correctly on the law and its effect on you.

Yea, but understand that the citizens are under the impression that LEOs know everything. Also, if the situation described turned into a fight and a neighbor called the cops, who is going to show up, investigate, and make arrest determinations: LEOs, not lawyers.

As such, people have constantly asked for my legal opinion. I like to help people when possible, but the problem I have with answering these sorts of questions is that if I give an answer, and then the person ends up in trouble, or things turn out different, they want to blame me...even though the situation isn't 100% as they described. This is why I carry a pocket recorder with me, because in the type of work I do, I have found that I can't trust anyone telling the truth 100%. I say something, the person doesn't like it, they complain, and their complaint doesn't give 100% of what was said. Happens time and time again.

It has gotten to the point where when I am asked "What can I do in this situation?" I tell the person that I am not going to predict the outcome of an event that hasn't happened. I explain that the state laws are available on-line and they need to read them and call a lawyer if they have questions. Some folks don't like this, and I understand, because I am the one who should be able to answer...but anymore, given my job, I don't like to give specific answers because every event is different. While at work, I never give specific answers anymore. I give a few examples and if the person has 1,000 questions, I refer them to my supervisor or tell them to contact an attorney.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Yea, but understand that the citizens are under the impression that LEOs know everything. Also, if the situation described turned into a fight and a neighbor called the cops, who is going to show up, investigate, and make arrest determinations: LEOs, not lawyers.

As such, people have constantly asked for my legal opinion. I like to help people when possible, but the problem I have with answering these sorts of questions is that if I give an answer, and then the person ends up in trouble, or things turn out different, they want to blame me...even though the situation isn't 100% as they described. This is why I carry a pocket recorder with me, because in the type of work I do, I have found that I can't trust anyone telling the truth 100%. I say something, the person doesn't like it, they complain, and their complaint doesn't give 100% of what was said. Happens time and time again.

It has gotten to the point where when I am asked "What can I do in this situation?" I tell the person that I am not going to predict the outcome of an event that hasn't happened. I explain that the state laws are available on-line and they need to read them and call a lawyer if they have questions. Some folks don't like this, and I understand, because I am the one who should be able to answer...but anymore, given my job, I don't like to give specific answers because every event is different. While at work, I never give specific answers anymore. I give a few examples and if the person has 1,000 questions, I refer them to my supervisor or tell them to contact an attorney.

Again, I meant no offense to LEOs. The fact is that people DO ask you guys for legal advice, and while you're charged with enforcing the law, there is no way (and you're not paid enough) for you to know EVERY law on EVERY subject, even in your own jurisdiction. I don't like the fact that some LEOs will spout out an answer, right or wrong, then hold to it authoritatively as if it was The Gospel According To St. Michael. There was such a story in the OP. Months and months ago, Terre Haute police told people (and may still, I don't know) that open carry was unlawful there, and would cite some non-existent ordinance to prove this. This does not even touch on the many reports we get of people reporting they've been told by a LEO and believing that unloaded, secure-wrapper transport of a handgun to the range is lawful.

Granted, some, maybe even many of those LEOs are telling the truth as they understand it. I doubt seriously that most of them are lying outright. Some may not even know what they don't know. After all, it's not just gun laws that you have to enforce.

Alternatively, while you guys are the ones breaking up the fight , the subject may not beat the ride, but they might beat the rap. Good for you for recommending the attorney to those who ask. I'm sure we all wish the law was simple enough to not require someone with a particular degree to read through, interpret, and clarify it. I find myself reminded of the reason the Catholic church once did everything in Latin: so that the people would not be able to seek salvation other than by way of the priests. Thankfully (for Catholics), those days are long since past. We seem to have adopted the practice in the writing of laws instead, both in language and in quantity.

Thanks for all you do. Stay safe out there.

Blessings,
Bill