Trespassing law?

[sloughfoot]

I thank all of you for all the info in this thread. I've had a problem for a few years now with trespassers, I post signs, they tear them down! I find them on my property and politely ask them to leave, they cuss and yell. My wife even found a shotgun on the ground they left lying after blowing up my kids tree swing. That slipped by on accident, I called the police but they had already took the gun back. I wish I would have been able to turn that over to the police. I hope someday they get bored with harassing me and my family. It is nice to learn what I can and cannot do when or if it ever escalates.

This is an incredible story. It is past time for law enforcement to have a conversation with these folks if you know who they are. If you don't know who they are, start documenting with police reports.

"blowing up your kids tree swing"??!!! That is over the line for sure. A camera may be your best friend. Criminal recklessness with a firearm is the first charge that comes to mind.

If a shotgun is left on your property, you can certainly take possession to "safeguard the owners property". Let him explain to the Deputy why his shotgun was found on your property.

Again, you can only justify deadly force as Public Servant detailed in his posts.

 

[shibumiseeker]

This is an incredible story. It is past time for law enforcement to have a conversation with these folks if you know who they are. If you don't know who they are, start documenting with police reports.

"blowing up your kids tree swing"??!!! That is over the line for sure. A camera may be your best friend. Criminal recklessness with a firearm is the first charge that comes to mind.

The first charge that comes to my mind is criminal trespass, which is something the LE should have taken seriously.

 

[DaKruiser]

The first charge that comes to my mind is criminal trespass, which is something the LE should have taken seriously.

Yea, I kind of felt like I was blown off, as if I was the one causing trouble. I'm very passive most of the time, I choose my fights. This one has not got to my breaking point, it comes and goes, kids that have problems at home need guidance from others. It's been hard, but I keep telling myself it will be worth the trouble. I doubt I will ever reap the benefits, but maybe someone will! As you might already know the adults are the real problem, and have been as big a troublemaker as the teenagers. Thanks for all the info.

 

[DarkRose]

Shoot someone in the back fleeing your home with no weapon on his person and you know damn well you can't prove that was reasonable in a court of law when you're charged with murder. You don't have free reign when someone breaks into your home. You're just a step below it. Shoot them in the chest, then it's easier to say they were coming at you and you felt threatened. Now if they are running towards a occupied bedroom and you shoot them in the back, you might be able to pull off that you were in fear of the other person's life.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to shoot an intruder in my home also with out having anything to worry about afterwards but we all know thats there's going to be some prosecutor out there ready to charge the home owner with murder cause he's personally against guns or some other messed up reason.

Back in high school a friend of mine was told by his father (i'm going to paraphrase, because the excect quote wasn't heard by me)

You know where the Garand is, never EVER shoot an intruder in the back, don't shoot someone outside that isn't armed, and dead men are poor witnesses.

Might be a little flippant, but does carry some good meaning.
1. Hard to justify shooting anyone in the back (for citizens or LEO either one)
2. Shooting someone in a place where you can retreat into your dwelling is hard (but not impossible) to explain/justify, once they enter you're dwelling, punch their ticket
3. With this tort happy society, well, empty the clip.

That's just my

 

[LawDog76]

Back in high school a friend of mine was told by his father (i'm going to paraphrase, because the excect quote wasn't heard by me)

You know where the Garand is, never EVER shoot an intruder in the back, don't shoot someone outside that isn't armed, and dead men are poor witnesses.

Might be a little flippant, but does carry some good meaning.
1. Hard to justify shooting anyone in the back (for citizens or LEO either one)
2. Shooting someone in a place where you can retreat into your dwelling is hard (but not impossible) to explain/justify, once they enter you're dwelling, punch their ticket
3. With this tort happy society, well, empty the clip.

That's just my

1. Hard to justify shooting anyone in the back (for citizens or LEO either one)

Heading off into a room where my kids are I will have no problem shooting them in the back. Being only 4 and 6 a guy could easily grab one of them and do alot of harm with his bare hands. Other than that, I don't think I would shoot a fleeing man in the back.

2. Shooting someone in a place where you can retreat into your dwelling is hard (but not impossible) to explain/justify, once they enter you're dwelling, punch their ticket

Thanks to Indiana Law, since we DO NOT have the duty to retreat, we shouldn't have to worry about explaining why we didn't retreat. But there is one simple answer. I didn't want the threat to possibly involve and have access to my family inside.

 

[1032JBT]

Back in high school a friend of mine was told by his father (i'm going to paraphrase, because the excect quote wasn't heard by me)

You know where the Garand is, never EVER shoot an intruder in the back, don't shoot someone outside that isn't armed, and dead men are poor witnesses.

Might be a little flippant, but does carry some good meaning.
1. Hard to justify shooting anyone in the back (for citizens or LEO either one)
2. Shooting someone in a place where you can retreat into your dwelling is hard (but not impossible) to explain/justify, once they enter you're dwelling, punch their ticket
3. With this tort happy society, well, empty the clip.

That's just my

Actually it's not really hard to explain shots in the back. If you haven't checked out Force Science I would recommend you do. Now delibertly shooting someone in the back???? Would depend on the situation. And that goes for LEO or not.

 

[RichardR]

I didn't want the threat to possibly involve and have access to my family inside.

Yup, it's pretty much a no-brainer for a criminal to grab themselves a child in order to use as a hostage in a home invasion scenario.

Because after they have your kid in their hands it's easy to get you to comply with their demands (ie: to drop your weapon, to open your safe, to not call 911, etc).

 

[tskin]

Indiana's castle doctrine is pretty clear & was intended to protect homeowners from this sort of wrongful prosecution.

Exactly right. I believe under the Indiana Castle Doctrine law that it is assumed that anyone who has broken into your house is there to do you harm. Therefore, you're pretty justified in anything that happens to the perp. I'm also of the mindset that I'm not articulating a damn thing until I've spoken with an attorney. "Yes officer, that does appear to be a dead guy by the fire place. Other than that, I have nothing to say until I've spoken with a lawyer."

 

[Jack Ryan]

I'll just keep my mouth shut and let the jury sort it out. I'm not articulating anything.

Just keep a deep hole dug all the time and let the worms sort it out.

 

[Joe Williams]

snip
If you shoot someone in SD, it will be a Homicide.........maybe a justified homicide, but a homicide in the very least.

Not necessarily. They might live... unless I have time to get to the 870. That lowers their odds a bit

 

[1032JBT]

Not necessarily. They might live... unless I have time to get to the 870. That lowers their odds a bit

That is true Joe.....but as has been talked about before, shot placement is everything
(except with the shotty)

 

[beararms1776]

Let me know how that works for you. We'll have a party when you get out of prison.

Do you honestly think you're going to shoot someone in your home and not have to explain why?????? You lose the game.

"Yep officer. I shot and killed the SOB. No...that's OK. Tomorrow is heavy trash day. I'll just set him out by the curb. You have a good night, too."

Please....

 

[$mooth]

and, to add, placing your hand on your holstered firearm (visible to those you are "talking" too) will be considered as Intimidation with a Deadly Weapon.

I speak from experience, but will not elaborate at this time.

Wait, really? If someone I don't know is at the door, I answer it with my hand on my holstered firearm or even my unholstered firearm. I've never pointed it at anyone, but If someone forces there way in, i'd rather be ready to draw.

 

[ocsdor]

Wait, really? If someone I don't know is at the door, I answer it with my hand on my holstered firearm or even my unholstered firearm. I've never pointed it at anyone, but If someone forces there way in, i'd rather be ready to draw.

I was outside, on my property, arguing with my neighbors about trespassing (to state it briefly). At a couple instances, I was charged at. I stepped back, placed my hand on my holstered revolver, and prepared to pull it out when he retreated. Once they (4 or 5 male adults and others) knew I was serious, they backed off and continued arguing, threatening, name calling, and throwing beer cans.

When the police came out, they made light of the threats and the trespass (all of which is on video and which I've showed them). And, the deal they made with me was if I filed charges on my neighbors for the trespass and the threats (misdemeanors), then it was "only fair" that I be charged with Intimidation with a Deadly Weapon (felony). When I made the case that I was defending myself and my land, they said if "you were that scared, you should have ran inside and called the police."

I was further told that the charges against my neighbors would probably be dropped, or they would get a slap on the wrist, whereas I would be defending myself in court to stay out of jail and keep my LTCH.

This took place in Jasper County a few years ago, and their attitude toward trespassers, and especially trespassers on ATVs (Automatic Trespass Vehicle) is the same as that stated earlier in this thread about Allen County.

And, that's all I'm going to say about that for now.

 

[RichardR]

When I made the case that I was defending myself and my land, they said if "you were that scared, you should have ran inside and called the police."

If there were 4 or 5 adult males who were all hostile/combative that is what is referred to as "disparity of force", also since you were in a place where you had a right to be, you did not have a "duty to retreat".

Also the placing your hand on your holstered weapon in anticipation of an attack is not intimidation.

It sounds like the responding officer needs to go back to the academy for further training to me.

 

[shibumiseeker]

If there were 4 or 5 adult males who were all hostile/combative that is what is referred to as "disparity of force", also since you were in a place where you had a right to be, you did not have a "duty to retreat".

Also the placing your hand on your holstered weapon in anticipation of an attack is not intimidation.

It sounds like the responding officer needs to go back to the academy for further training to me.

Ahh, but ain't local politics grand? When the miscreants are related to the responding officers, or the local prosecutor or the DA, or are big community supporters or whatever, then they can get away with far more than if they are known meth addicts or lower socioeconomic scum. Or if you are a well known person who worked on the opposite party as the local sheriff or prosecutor or judge or the like, or your ethnic background isn't the right one, then your treatment by the system is also less likely to be fair.

Small town (or county) politics are just as likely to be far more brutal than the inner city kinds as they are to be more fair than the inner city stuff.

 

[Jack Ryan]

That is true Joe.....but as has been talked about before, shot placement is everything
(except with the shotty)

You are dead wrong about that.

 

[Jack Ryan]

...

This took place in Jasper County a few years ago, and their attitude toward trespassers, and especially trespassers on ATVs (Automatic Trespass Vehicle) is the same as that stated earlier in this thread about Allen County.

And, that's all I'm going to say about that for now.

Yep, and rep coming!

 

[cowboywitek]

I had the same question... thanks everyone that helps alot.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Ahh, but ain't local politics grand? When the miscreants are related to the responding officers, or the local prosecutor or the DA, or are big community supporters or whatever, then they can get away with far more than if they are known meth addicts or lower socioeconomic scum. Or if you are a well known person who worked on the opposite party as the local sheriff or prosecutor or judge or the like, or your ethnic background isn't the right one, then your treatment by the system is also less likely to be fair.

Small town (or county) politics are just as likely to be far more brutal than the inner city kinds as they are to be more fair than the inner city stuff.

I can second that. My folks lived up at Bass Lake, near Knox in Starke County. When my dad died in '82, we drove up from Houston for his funeral. My brother was in the AF at the time and also came in for the funeral. We decided to go to the local bar for a drink because we hadn't seen one another in some years. My wife and I got went in the car first and waited on my brother. After a couple minutes, I went outside and he was there with a teenager. My brother said, "This guy just rear-ended your car and was going to leave when I stopped him". After the guy gave us two false names and refused to show us his license, we called the police. When the deputy got there, he evidently knew the kid, called him by name (not one of the ones he gave us), didn't even give him a ticket, and let him go. We were "visitors" you see, not "residents", even though our family had lived there full-time for 10 years...