Traffic stop, officer confiscated my firearms.

[lrahm]

So, what IS the legal limit for a person holding a class A CDL? I'll tell you, it is .04 and that limit is the same for said CDL holder even when they are in a personal vehicle. So, let's say I blow a .05 or .06 when driving my ford taurus, but my license is a class A, are you saying you would let me go? I hope so, but the limit is .04.

Between .04% BAC and .08 % BAC is an infraction.

 

[youngda9]

Did the son had any alcohol on this fishing trip?

Did the police officer test the 15yo son's blood alcohol level?

 

[TTravis]

Did the son had any alcohol on this fishing trip?

Did the police officer test the 15yo son's blood alcohol level?

NO and NO. He will probably do like I did, and wait till he is 17. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[lrahm]

You know, I feel that any time that you drink and drive, deep down you have this feeling that "hey, I could be stopped". Was a designated driver ever discussed?

 

[TTravis]

This is silly. OP stated there were 3 people in the car. Himself, his father and an underage unlicensed driver. He never mentions his father. He admits he wasn't driving. Can we come to the decision that SOMEONE was driving? If not he or his father, and underage and unlicensed person was "allegedly" driving. OP also stated that his son had not had drivers education yet.

OP had 4 issues. 1. alcohol 2. boating 3. "allegedly" having an unlicensed underage operator 4. firearms Combine any 2 and it is a dangerous situation or we wouldn't be chatting about his. Unless IN is different than MI you are responsible for your child until they are 18. He was in the vehicle while his son "allegedly" operated the vehicle illegaly. Ergo he is responsible for this act.

OP also stated that when asked by the officer if there were any other weapons in the vehicle he told him "if you look in the tackle box in the back you'll find a very sharp pair of clippers". Under the circumstances he would have been better served not twisting the tigers tail. OP asked for opinions and I'm sorry that you take exception to mine. I keep my opinion the same. If his son has not been trained. is not licensed and they have decided to mix all 4 items above. They are a danger on the road and the officer was doing his job protecting others from OP's bad decisions. Instead of "manning up" to his wrongs. He's going to continue to teach his son that it's ok to break the laws you don't agree with. When he continues that behavior and breaks one that OP doesn't like, where will OP stand then? He's only doing what his father taught him.

You also mention that I'm making an assumption about his experience. OP stated that his son is 15 and has not had drivers ed. But you may be right. Considering the other errors in judgment, his son just may be experienced. And that is my logical conclusion.

It was only my son and myself in the car. My father was fishing with us earlier, but he drove home in his own vehicle.

As far as boating is concerned, I don't consider it to be relevant, but I am sure some are wondering. Yes I was in the boat, but I sat in the bow. My father was in the stern because he is older and it is more comfortable for him there. We were on a private lake. I guess you could accuse me of operating a trolling motor while intoxicated!

I have told the full story, although I was reluctant to in the beginning. I was hoping to keep the issue of firearms seperate so you guys would focus on whether my 4A rights were violated.

I accept people's criticism readily. My son's (supervised) driving will be perfectly legal when he gets his beginners permit in a few weeks. As far I am concerned, there was no real harm done.

People say that this could have happened, or that could have happened, but nothing bad happened as a result of this.

I am sure it would irritate a lot of people if I were to say that my son, like many other boys his age, has driven everything the could get his hands on, including complex farm machinery, and we did not get pulled over because of any flaws in his driving, assuming he was driving.

I am anxious to get my hands on the police car video. I am starting to sense that they are reluctant to turn it over. I don't know if it would be legal, but I may post the whole video on youtube when the case is over. While I made several mistakes, the officer made several mistakes also and I want to bring those to light for discussion so it may help us all be better informed of our rights in a similar situation.

As far a s me being a bad example to my son for fighting a ticket, even if I was wrong, well I am just exercising my rights. I think an officer better has his act together and be ready to go to court if he rites tickets. I think they would behave a lot differently if more people stood up for themselves.

 

[TTravis]

You know, I feel that any time that you drink and drive, deep down you have this feeling that "hey, I could be stopped". Was a designated driver ever discussed?

I never felt I was over the limit or not capable of driving. This is based on how I was not feeling the effects of alcohol, and calculations of how much I drank over the amount of time. I was not making my son be a designated driver. Even I would never do that. Remember my rule at the time was no more than a 12pk on the boat for a day of fishing. I did go fishing yesterday. We only took a 6pk and I enjoyed 3 beers while on the boat, and drove home with no worries. I also left my guns home for the first time ever and I felt naked. I am going to try to upload a picture where my father and I switched vehicles and I followed my trailer for a while to see if the car's brake lights were visible, and they were.

 

[sloughfoot]

A person with a learners permit that is being supervised by a parent who has been drinking is not supervised.

 

[youngda9]

Will this altercation have reprocussions on your son getting his driving permit?

Please supervize while 100% sober from now on.

We only took a 6pk and I enjoyed 3 beers while on the boat, and drove home with no worries.

And stop drinking and driving already.

 

[TTravis]

Will this altercation have reprocussions on your son getting his driving permit?

Please supervize while 100% sober from now on.And stop drinking and driving already.

No. My son was not charged with anything. The officer told him he was not in trouble. I do want to get the stop declared inadmissible in order to protect both of us from further charges.

 

[youngda9]

I do want to get the stop declared inadmissible in order to protect both of us from further charges.

If you are unsuccesful, could you be opening yourself up to further charges. Sometimes its best to not poke the sleeping bear.

 

[TTravis]

How do you upload a picture from a file? I see where you can specify a URL, but this is a file from my desktop. This should be easy. Can I simply past the picture here? Last time I tried that, it did not seem to work.

 

[youngda9]

How do you upload a picture from a file? I see where you can specify a URL, but this is a file from my desktop. This should be easy. Can I simply past the picture here? Last time I tried that, it did not seem to work.

Go to an image hosting website like ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Upload your image from your desktop. It will then give you a web location of your link to post on forums.

I think you might be able to upload to your photo album on INGO and then reference that location...but I don't use the photo album so I'm not sure.

 

[TTravis]

If you are unsuccesful, could you be opening yourself up to further charges. Sometimes its best to not poke the sleeping bear.

I suppose you are right about that. That could probably be painted as vindictive prosecution and they probably would have to show good reason for waiting so long to bring charges. Surely they have better things to do. If they tried that, I would most certainly file a lawsuit against the officer and PD. That is something I hope I don't have to look into.

 

[TTravis]

Go to an image hosting website like ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Upload your image from your desktop. It will then give you a web location of your link to post on forums.

I think you might be able to upload to your photo album on INGO and then reference that location...but I don't use the photo album so I'm not sure.

I hope this works..... Thanks for the instruction.

Here is the photo showing the vehicle lights being visible, as well as the trailer lights.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/trailerlights.jpg/

(tried to insert image but URL too long)

Here is a picture of the big bass I caught that day, which made it a perfect day until we got pulled over.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5746/bassvg.jpg

 

[grizman]

Regardless of the officers attitude or local reputation, he in fact did cut you and your son a break. He did not charge the boy with any offense that would have certainly delayed him getting a permit and or a license. and it seems he went easy on you considering the list of things he could have slapped on you.

You were under the influence whether you feel you were or not. No sworn officer would place himself in a position of personal/professional liability by allowing anyone under the influence to retain position of firearms, especially in public. Not his fault the chief was on vacation resulting in a delay in the return of your firearms either. Could he have been a sweet heart and simply allowed family to come and drive you home with no citation or charges filed? Yes. Did he? NO. He felt you needed a lesson to make you see your error's in judgment that night without being too hard nosed.

FYI DOT regs now require that any external light affixed to a power unit or trailer be functional, if not you can be ticketed. I have been to several DOT seminars this past year at operating scale house's in Indiana. Just as LEO's sometimes don't know every single statute neither do truck drivers know all DOT regs. AFAIK these regs can be applied to any motor vehicle.

OP, pay the fine and remember the lesson here. You are going down a road best not taken. Mostly for your sons sake. He has more at stake here than you do.
Others here have stated there is a 24 month window for new and or additional charges to be filed in regards to this incident. Why push the issue? You do know that the judge can request charges be filed against your son for operating without a lic when the "discovery" is made in court that he shouldn't have been pulled over, in your interpretation of the law, for the tail light issue to begin with!

 

[TTravis]

Regardless of the officers attitude or local reputation, he in fact did cut you and your son a break. He did not charge the boy with any offense that would have certainly delayed him getting a permit and or a license. and it seems he went easy on you considering the list of things he could have slapped on you.

You were under the influence whether you feel you were or not. No sworn officer would place himself in a position of personal/professional liability by allowing anyone under the influence to retain position of firearms, especially in public. Not his fault the chief was on vacation resulting in a delay in the return of your firearms either. Could he have been a sweet heart and simply allowed family to come and drive you home with no citation or charges filed? Yes. Did he? NO. He felt you needed a lesson to make you see your error's in judgment that night without being too hard nosed.

FYI DOT regs now require that any external light affixed to a power unit or trailer be functional, if not you can be ticketed. I have been to several DOT seminars this past year at operating scale house's in Indiana. Just as LEO's sometimes don't know every single statute neither do truck drivers know all DOT regs. AFAIK these regs can be applied to any motor vehicle.

OP, pay the fine and remember the lesson here. You are going down a road best not taken. Mostly for your sons sake. He has more at stake here than you do.
Others here have stated there is a 24 month window for new and or additional charges to be filed in regards to this incident. Why push the issue? You do know that the judge can request charges be filed against your son for operating without a lic when the "discovery" is made in court that he shouldn't have been pulled over, in your interpretation of the law, for the tail light issue to begin with!

Thanks for your input. I think my strategy is that I will try to get the case thrown out before the trial date. If that doesn't work, I will pay my fine before the trial begins.

As far as DOT regs are concerned, I'll have to look them up. As far as state law is concerned, I have pointed out in IC where my trailer lights are not required in the first place, and provided a picture to show that the towing vehicle's brake lights are indeed viable. The officer simply made a bad call (mistake of law) as far as probable cause is concerned.

I want to get the officer's video. My brake lights were working last night which is the first time I checked them since the incident. It is possible, I suppose they were not working when I was pulled over, but that was never verified at the stop. The discovery will let me know in advance what they have that can be used against me in court. If the video shows brake lights working, then there is an obvious problem.

I've been around these officers before, except on more friendly terms. I have been shocked by their attitude and comments toward others. I would bet that officer said or did something that got recorded that he would not like to see out in the open. It would not surprise me to hear him say something like, "Here I am working, and this guy was fishing. I'm going to pull him over and see if I can make him squirm."

I've tried to describe the facts, but you would have had to be there to realise that, although I may be a jerk, the officer was not exactly polite and professional toward me, my son, my wife, and my daughter. I want to study that video before I make any decisions on what to do.

 

[youngda9]

Take the amount of time you're going to spend on this prior to trial(typing about it, researching laws, traveling to get documents/video, etc) and do some extra work to earn the money and pay the small fee...you'll have have plenty left over for beer, bait, and brake lights.

 

[TTravis]

Take the amount of time you're going to spend on this prior to trial(typing about it, researching laws, traveling to get documents/video, etc) and do some extra work to earn the money and pay the small fee...you'll have have plenty left over for beer, bait, and brake lights.

BAIT.... Ouch. You insulted me sir without realising it! I am a pure fly-fisherman. We do not use bait.

 

[Denny347]

So, what IS the legal limit for a person holding a class A CDL? I'll tell you, it is .04 and that limit is the same for said CDL holder even when they are in a personal vehicle. So, let's say I blow a .05 or .06 when driving my ford taurus, but my license is a class A, are you saying you would let me go? I hope so, but the limit is .04.

I do not care about a CDL if you are not operating a commercial vehicle. If a break is warranted then you will get a break. I won't jam up a CDL holder just to be mean. My intention is NOT to affect their livelihood. However, if jail is the right thing, then I will be sorry but I will do what I have to do.

 

[jmiller676]

I hope this works..... Thanks for the instruction.

Here is the photo showing the vehicle lights being visible, as well as the trailer lights.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

(tried to insert image but URL too long)

Here is a picture of the big bass I caught that day, which made it a perfect day until we got pulled over.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5746/bassvg.jpg

Your button is undone at the bottom.


Just trying to add some comic relief.