Told by FWPD illegal to OC in Indiana

[CarmelHP]

Why'd you leave the officers names out we should know who the idiots are, I go to Ft Wayne quite often.

Amen. Morons should not be offered refuge.

 

[charles.wolff]

Why would anyone want to be willfully arrested? Come on guys. I'm all for standing up for my rights, but I draw the line at being arrested if I have a choice. I chose to comply to the Officer's requests which led to me not being arrested. I stated to him what my rights were, he told me otherwise. Right or wrong, I chose not to be arrested (falsely or justly). I would rather battle this through an attorney than put on a public demonstration. You can call me a coward if you like. Please keep in mind that I am a father, a husband, and run a business of 15 people. I have people who depend on me daily. The last thing I want is to argue with the police and be arrested for trying to prove a couple of officers wrong. Neither one of the officers were going to agree with me. I will battle this thing a way that works for me. I hope most of you understand this.

I agree with this...

 

[cschwanz]

OP handled it as good as he could at the time. If it happens to me, I would probably do the same thing. The inconvenience of an arrest would be taxing. The city would reimburse me for all of it tho if they decided to go down that road! Know your rights and stick to them when questioned!

Side note, I know where I am eating dinner tonight

 

[JetGirl]

Side note, I know where I am eating dinner tonight

If I didn't have to work, we'd be joining you.

 

[KG1]

I am not sure of the prospects of legal action. I don't think a monetary value will be assessed from just an uninformed officer talking(thats how they would present it I'm sure) to you. If he was wrong are you not partly wrong to for agreeing by covering your weapon. Maybe they know it is legal just tring to bully LTCH holders to cover for their convienence. I have already discussed this with the wife as I OC also. If the same situation occurs I may get arrested because I will not cover my weapon.

My Father was approached by an off duty FWPD seargent also and was told to cover up. He also covered up his gun, partly out of not knowing 100% that it was not illegal. This is how they perpetuate the lie to unknowing LTCH holders. People naturally think the police don't lie or that they know the laws.

It simply was'nt just a matter of an ill-informed officer "talking".

I believe the OP was coerced into complying (covering up) under the threat of possible arrest in an attempt to enforce a non existent law.

 

[KG1]

I agree with this...

I do believe he has now revised that position.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I read most of this and I am glad and support the OP's decision to stand his ground a little better next time.

If no one has mentioned it the best lawyer I can think of would be Guy Relford. He is a contributing site supporter and already has filed a couple of lawsuits based on SB292/IC 35-47-11.1 so he would be the authority on the subject.

As far as the cops knowing the law but instigating a Heckler's Veto anyway shows they are not THAT familiar with it. More likely they thought they were being "nice" by "allowing" him to conceal it and go about his day.

Personally I find it interesting that this cop initiated a contact for this situation without being called. This shows a personal aspect to the assault on the OP's rights and a very specific hatred or misunderstanding of OC.

 

[Fixer]

It simply was'nt just a matter of an ill-informed officer "talking".

I believe the OP was coerced into complying (covering up) under the threat of possible arrest in an attempt to enforce a non existent law.

I agree.
I was refering to an in court stance on their side. Downplaying the coercion for the sake of the court.

Nothing worse than a bully with a badge. maybe he should reread his job description. TO SERVE AND PROTECT

 

[JettaKnight]

If they thought you were committing a crime they would of arrested you. They know what the law is they're just trying to intimidate you into complying with what they believe the law should be. It sucks to be put into that position but if you didn't comply with their demands and conceal the weapon they would of probably charged you with some BS disorderly conduct charge. These idiots need to be held accountable for their actions.

Objection your honor, my colleague can not possibly know what is going on in the officers' minds.

 

[JettaKnight]

The "inconveniences" were my wife and child watching me be arrested and trying to explain to my employees why I was in jail. Do you know how an arrest looks on your record? I made a simple choice to not be arrested and approach things from a different angle.

I did not give in, Sir. I simply went down a different path that you clearly wouldn't have. It's easy to type about how the scenario should have played out differently from a keyboard in the comfort of one's home. Put yourself in my shoes my friend. I made my decision at the time, going from my gut instinct, which is to not get arrested. If you want to be the next Rosa Parks, you go right ahead. Maybe I will give directions from the backseat the whole way for you. But don't haggle me about how I handled the situation that I was put into. I handled it the best way I knew how at the moment.
My fight is not over with the FWPD, far from it. Thanks for the support.

You did the right thing. Discretion is the better part of valor. You didn't back down, nor give in - you simple choose to move the fight to a venue that you have a better chance of winning in.

The bullheaded people who think ever fight must be finished when the start in the same way they start will continue to expend too much effort and receive too much collateral damage (e.g. having your kids see you in 'cuffs), and continue to mock you.

Getting your oppenent to do things your way because they understand and like you is far better than getting them to do it out of fear (e.g. lawsuits).

 

[Titanium_Frost]

You did the right thing. Discretion is the better part of valor. You didn't back down, nor give in - you simple choose to move the fight to a venue that you have a better chance of winning in.

The bullheaded people who think ever fight must be finished when the start in the same way they start will continue to expend too much effort and receive too much collateral damage (e.g. having your kids see you in 'cuffs), and continue to mock you.

Getting your oppenent to do things your way because they understand and like you is far better than getting them to do it out of fear (e.g. lawsuits).

It is not bullheaded to stand your ground when you are right. Not everyone is as passive as you are, it does not make it any less effective in the end. Perhaps more so in the end.

 

[wizard_of_ahs]

Am I the only one that saw the fact that the officer took his firearm??? Why did he take your firearm???

I noticed that right away

Let us know how it turns out.

Why would anyone want to be willfully arrested? Come on guys. I'm all for standing up for my rights, but I draw the line at being arrested if I have a choice. I chose to comply to the Officer's requests which led to me not being arrested. I stated to him what my rights were, he told me otherwise. Right or wrong, I chose not to be arrested (falsely or justly). I would rather battle this through an attorney than put on a public demonstration. You can call me a coward if you like. Please keep in mind that I am a father, a husband, and run a business of 15 people. I have people who depend on me daily. The last thing I want is to argue with the police and be arrested for trying to prove a couple of officers wrong. Neither one of the officers were going to agree with me. I will battle this thing a way that works for me. I hope most of you understand this.

A right not exercised is a right lost !!

It is not bullheaded to stand your ground when you are right. Not everyone is as passive as you are, it does not make it any less effective in the end. Perhaps more so in the end.

 

[KG1]

I read most of this and I am glad and support the OP's decision to stand his ground a little better next time.

If no one has mentioned it the best lawyer I can think of would be Guy Relford. He is a contributing site supporter and already has filed a couple of lawsuits based on SB292/IC 35-47-11.1 so he would be the authority on the subject.

As far as the cops knowing the law but instigating a Heckler's Veto anyway shows they are not THAT familiar with it. More likely they thought they were being "nice" by "allowing" him to conceal it and go about his day.

Personally I find it interesting that this cop initiated a contact for this situation without being called. This shows a personal aspect to the assault on the OP's rights and a very specific hatred or misunderstanding of OC.

If it was just the officer alone then I would agree with the personal aspect but when he contacted the Sargent and the Sgt. backed up the officers assertion that it was illegal and therefore non compliance could result in arrest then that shows me it's a more systemic problem within the ranks of the FWPD.

That's why IMO any form of resolution needs to be taken much more seriously than just a complaint letter.

 

[Dr Dave]

My biggest concern with getting arrested is, after they figure out that OC is legal, they come up with some other charge that they can get away with to CYA.

 

[Fixer]

You didn't back down, nor give in - you simple choose to move the fight to a venue that you have a better chance of winning in.

I thought he covered up. I consider that giving in. The only thing he can win now is that the cop misrepresented the IC. If he claims he and his supervisor did not know, I don't see you winning any kind of settlement for that. It will at least be more difficult to prove it was more than misinterpretation of the IC.

 

[Fixer]

My biggest concern with getting arrested is, after they figure out that OC is legal, they come up with some other charge that they can get away with to CYA.

Once they decide to arrest you is the moment you stop talking or answering any questions. At that point my lawyer will answer any questions they have.
If you have remained calm, you cannot be charged for refusing to comply with an imaginary law.

 

[Compatriot G]

I once had a local police officer tell me it was illegal to have a shotgun in my vehicle. I pointed out that the IC was silent on the issue of carrying long guns. He then tried to tell me only law enforcement could carry a loaded long gun. I once again pointed out that the IC was silent on the issue of carrying long guns. At this point, he started yelling at me and repeatedly asking me if I wanted to go to jail. I very calmly told the officer to do whatever he thought was necessary. He ended walking away from me upset and I continued on about my business. Just because they threaten to arrest you doesn't mean they are actually foolish enough to do it.

 

[KG1]

I once had a local police officer tell me it was illegal to have a shotgun in my vehicle. I pointed out that the IC was silent on the issue of carrying long guns. He then tried to tell me only law enforcement could carry a loaded long gun. I once again pointed out that the IC was silent on the issue of carrying long guns. At this point, he started yelling at me and repeatedly asking me if I wanted to go to jail. I very calmly told the officer to do whatever he thought was necessary. He ended walking away from me upset and I continued on about my business. Just because they threaten to arrest you doesn't mean they are actually foolish enough to do it.

This is an example of why some of us advocate calmly and collectively putting the ball back in the Leo's court and making them back up their assertion.

The key is not to let them get to you and escalate the debate where they have the advantage of goading you into an arrest for something entirely different.

 

[CTS]

The two officers that I dealt with in this matter are representatives of the FWPD. Right, wrong, or indifferent, they have spoken for the City of Fort Wayne and will be dealt with as such.

If anyone knows an attorney that knows Indiana gun laws please PM me with their contact info. Unfortunately outside of that I would be resorted to the google, or worse, the phone book.

For gun related stuff in Fort Wayne, Robert Gevers is a great attorney. He's a former prosecutor and 2A advocate.

http://www.geverslaw.com/

 

[Titanium_Frost]

If it was just the officer alone then I would agree with the personal aspect but when he contacted the Sargent and the Sgt. backed up the officers assertion that it was illegal and therefore non compliance could result in arrest then that shows me it's a more systemic problem within the ranks of the FWPD.

That's why IMO any form of resolution needs to be taken much more seriously than just a complaint letter.

I was referring more about the initial encounter in my post. IMO as soon as the officer was "acting in accordance with his duties" such as enforcing a law, rule, policy etc of a political subdivision he is violating the intent of the preemption act.

However... Since the OP went along with all aspects of the cop's orders I do not see how he could prove he objected to the orders unless the cops is dumb enough to admit that under oath since there was unlikely to be a police report on this interaction. As far as a jury would be concerned this was just a discussion between buddies unless the OP could PROVE he was ordered against his will to follow the cop's instructions.

Hopefully he had some sort of recording device going at the time.