To the IDIOT who damaged Kodiak Firing Range

[the1kidd03]

isn't it illegal to possess AP rounds?

as with any law, "it's only illegal if you get caught with it"....meaning it's not hard to get but it's much harder to identify it as such and spot someone using it

It's a shame someone did it. I would venture to guess they knew what they were doing because actual AP ammo would take a few hoops to get your hands on. Most people that would go through those hoops to get it, although it's illegal here, wouldn't waste it on a practice range but rather save it "for a rainy day." Not to mention risking getting caught with it. I think they knew full well what they were doing and should be strung up in every way possible if found.

 

[Scutter01]

I think they knew full well what they were doing and should be strung up in every way possible if found.

It's also possible that they bought it from someone FTF without knowing what it was. No hoops needed, just someone with AP ammo that they wanted to get rid of.

 

[jedi]

ah...I wonder where one would get an AP rifle round

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=armor+piercing+.223+for+sale

 

[NIFT]

It's also possible that they bought it from someone FTF without knowing what it was. No hoops needed, just someone with AP ammo that they wanted to get rid of.

Perhaps but just speculation. One would hope a person unknowingly firing AP rounds and making a bunch of holes in armor steel, might begin to wonder if something might be amiss. ... On second thought, that, too, would be a stretch.

 

[Caleb]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=armor+piercing+.223+for+sale

You seriously went through all that trouble just for me? Well shucks...

 

[PeaShooter]

Devil's Advocate:
Even if he did find the person, lets call him "Joe Shooter". Now what?
Kodiak will ask him to pay for the damages and Joe Shooter says NO.
Now Kodiak has to spend more $$$ taking it to small claims court (if under the limit) or taking it to court to sue for the damages. Either one cost money and takes time with no guarantee that Joe Shooter will even pay!



Sadly everyone see it a bit different.
However what's to say Joe Shooter is not a first time shooter and has no clue about the difference in ammo types? He just shoot what he bought at wally world and did not think anything of it, or the safety issues?

We are oh so quick to blast Joe Shooter and not like him. Yet we have no clue if he did it on purpose (ie. knew that that type of ammo should not be used and used it anyways) or if he is indeed a 100% n00bie.


-Jedi

So just because someone is ignorant of something, they shouldn't be held liable for their actions?

Say someone is shooting their gun in a woods and it exits the woods and goes through a house and kills someone. Are they not liable?

I am liable for any damage I cause, whether I do it intentionally, or out of ignorance.

 

[Zimm1001]

Well here is a brighter side as well. As you know this faciilty use only lead free frangible ammunition which won't even tickle AR500 plate. I designed this facility and I built in a safety factor just in case somethign like this happened. Honestly I never in a million years thought someone would be so stupid or malicious to use AP rounds in an indoor range.
Besides the ballistic curtain and AR500 armor plate I have 4 inches of foam followed by 8 inches of poured concrete followed by 4 more inches of foam followed by insulation and the outside metal skin of the building. The good news is the concrete stopped the AP rounds cold. NO rounds left the building. Thank God I put in 4 extra inches of concrete! I hope the person responsible is proud of themselves. I guess you just can't fix stupid!

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Devil's Advocate:
Even if he did find the person, lets call him "Joe Shooter". Now what?
Kodiak will ask him to pay for the damages and Joe Shooter says NO.
Now Kodiak has to spend more $$$ taking it to small claims court (if under the limit) or taking it to court to sue for the damages. Either one cost money and takes time with no guarantee that Joe Shooter will even pay!



Sadly everyone see it a bit different.
However what's to say Joe Shooter is not a first time shooter and has no clue about the difference in ammo types? He just shoot what he bought at wally world and did not think anything of it, or the safety issues?

We are oh so quick to blast Joe Shooter and not like him. Yet we have no clue if he did it on purpose (ie. knew that that type of ammo should not be used and used it anyways) or if he is indeed a 100% n00bie.


-Jedi

I see what you're saying Jedi but it's impossible to not know what rounds are ok and what rounds aren't. The sign is big, the staff explains it and you have to acknowledge it.

Just saying that it had to be on purpose. No other way that I can see.

 

[printcraft]

Confirmed. The rounds were AP rounds. How nice!

Somebody with a grudge wanting to tear up your stuff?

 

[jedi]

You seriously went through all that trouble just for me? Well shucks...

Someone else showed me that site here on INGO and I just get a kick when I can use it on my fellow INGOERs.

So just because someone is ignorant of something, they shouldn't be held liable for their actions?

Say someone is shooting their gun in a woods and it exits the woods and goes through a house and kills someone. Are they not liable?

I am liable for any damage I cause, whether I do it intentionally, or out of ignorance.

Did I say he should not be held liable? I don't recall saying that.
Just pointing out the fact that even if you do find Joe Shooter and it happens to be someone who did it on purpose there is still a "fee" associated with making that person pay for this by fixing it.

Yes in the "Andy Griffin" world Joe Shooter would come back and confess his sins and offer to make it right by paying for the damages perhaps over several weeks of xyz payments.

Sadly this is the real world (not to be confused with the MTV show) and it's a cold, cruel world that tends to take more than it gives.

Honestly I never in a million years thought someone would be so stupid or malicious to use AP rounds in an indoor range.

Oh then you have never worked retail before.
People tend to surprise designers/computer coders by doing things that nobody ever thinks they will do. That is why it's so hard to code AI.
Glad you added that extra safety to the design to ensure everyone's safety "outside" the bldg.

Now can we test it by doing a .50 BMG AP round.

 

[evsnova74]

I have to assume that this is similar to ITP's no hollow point rule. Sure, I'd like to know if the HP's I have will fire in my EDC problem free but anything that keeps range costs down has to take priority over anything else IMO. Of course this is much more egregious than that...

 

[ZbornacSVT]

Sorry to hear this. Let us know if we can help.

 

[iamaclone45]

I'm guessing the shooter knew exactly what they were doing, which is unfortunate.

"Searching bags" may be a bit extreme. If you notice a rifle bag, you could just ask to see the rifle and ask to inspect all ammunition.

This will help prevent this type of incident "accidentally" happening. If someone really wanted to shoot AP/steel core/etc they could really just hide it, or load it deep into magazines prior to arriving at the range.

I know Applied Ballistics usually asks to see my ammunition when I bring my AR15 in. They usually test it with a magnet to make sure it's not AP.

I know you have to do what you need to do to prevent property damage, but inspecting bags isn't going to make very many happy.

 

[yeti rider]

I'm guessing the shooter knew exactly what they were doing, which is unfortunate.

"Searching bags" may be a bit extreme. If you notice a rifle bag, you could just ask to see the rifle and ask to inspect all ammunition.

This will help prevent this type of incident "accidentally" happening. If someone really wanted to shoot AP/steel core/etc they could really just hide it, or load it deep into magazines prior to arriving at the range.

I know Applied Ballistics usually asks to see my ammunition when I bring my AR15 in. They usually test it with a magnet to make sure it's not AP.

I know you have to do what you need to do to prevent property damage, but inspecting bags isn't going to make very many happy.

One bad egg ruins it for everyone.

 

[Doug B]

I'm a new gun owner. Learning a lot from this website.

Where is your range? When will it be up and running again? If it's anywhere close, I'm interested in visiting and maybe taking some classes.

 

[Zimm1001]

I'm a new gun owner. Learning a lot from this website.

Where is your range? When will it be up and running again? If it's anywhere close, I'm interested in visiting and maybe taking some classes.

Southside of South Bend. www.kodiakrange.com. We are operational except for lane 2 on the Tactical Range.

 

[Goober135]

I know Applied Ballistics usually asks to see my ammunition when I bring my AR15 in. They usually test it with a magnet to make sure it's not AP.

Granted, most of the times I have shot at AB I have bought their .223 ammo, but they have never asked to see my ammo or tested it with a magnet... Maybe they just trust me?

 

[Zimm1001]

You know the funniest thing about all this. The guy was a really lousy shot. They were all over the place. High, low, side to side. I have received a hundred emails all with offering to help offering moral support.

I did receive one email from a guy who shot on Sat. I had sent out an email to all the people with email addresses on our system explaining what happened. This one guy tells me how inconsiderate the shooter was but told me I should have not sent out emails to everyone because he felt guilty by association and that I should have only sent emails out to people who shot over the weekend. He said he was there on Sat for the first time and it would be his last.
Now read through what I just wrote and tell me what doesn't make sense other than my poor grammar and spelling! lolololol

 

[85t5mcss]

Guilty by association? Really? First time shooter and last? Hmmm? I doubt you accused anyone and it was probably more informative and a reminder. I wouldn't be offended.

Hell, my local range accused my of using an inappropriate caliber to my face. He was wrong, we discussed it and no hard feelings either way.

Hope this all works out for you. Just sucks that there is always the bad egg.

 

[Caleb]

You know the funniest thing about all this. The guy was a really lousy shot. They were all over the place. High, low, side to side. I have received a hundred emails all with offering to help offering moral support.

I did receive one email from a guy who shot on Sat. I had sent out an email to all the people with email addresses on our system explaining what happened. This one guy tells me how inconsiderate the shooter was but told me I should have not sent out emails to everyone because he felt guilty by association and that I should have only sent emails out to people who shot over the weekend. He said he was there on Sat for the first time and it would be his last.
Now read through what I just wrote and tell me what doesn't make sense other than my poor grammar and spelling! lolololol

Sounds like a confession to me