To mask or not to mask....That is the question. Part II

[BugI02]

I think only actual real ass scientists should get to say that someone is not following the science. That way no one will be following the science. And then we can call it a day.

Seriously though I do kinda think that. Kirk, or whoever, maybe your average rando blue-check Twitterer, admonishing people to follow the science or claiming that people who don't agree with them are not following the science, I think isn't helping.

It's something I've really hated for a long time now. It's like people arguing about global warming who aren't climatologists and really don't have the depth of working knowledge to do anything but throw experts at dissenters and claim they're anti-science. These people should just sit the **** down and let the real ass scientists debate stuff. Of course in public where everyone gets to hear the bad ideas being quashed. But, point is, we should all stop seeking proxies of the knowledge we lack to fight our internet battles as if we're smarter for it.

You know, I'm not a climatologist but I am a scientist. I know enough to know that climate change inc. has never made a short or medium range hypothesis of testable accuracy and been right - not once. It is always excused by saying the next, 'more detailed' model will fix the problem but so far it never has

Then 400 ppm of C02 is thrown around as some point of devastation because that is the ppm when the earth was a lot warmer - but all that is is a pointless correlation. Far too many parameters are unknown and quite likely different between then and now for the comparison to be meaningful, and 'the earth is warming' is not any sort of prediction, either. It likely has been doing so since the last ice age. These people are not scientists regardless of what letters are after their name because they are not using the scientific method (hypothesize ==> predict ==> test ==> evaluate right/wrong ==> repeat). They are acolytes in the church of climate change

 

[Chewie]

Toe tapping is really annoying - .

Used to have a manager that the madder he got the faster he tapped. One day a couple of us engineers got him so mad his foot was vibrating. After that it became a game to see who could get his foot vibrating the fastest without getting fired. I won because I quit before I got fired.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What many of us have said for a long time...

Study Results: Facemasks are Ineffective to Block Transmission of COVID-19 and Actually Can Cause Health Deterioration and Premature Death | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft

A recent study reported by the NCBI, which is under the National Institutes of Health, showed that masks do absolutely nothing to help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and their use is even harmful. NIH published a medical hypothesis by Dr.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Ff

As I have pointed out before, the argument of the anti-masker position is based on feelings, politics and fraud.

Did So-Called ‘Stanford, NIH Study’ Really Show Face Masks Are Ineffective Against Covid-19?

Some on social media are claiming that a “Stanford” or “NIH” study has shown that face masks are ineffective and even harmful. Stanford Medicine has emphasized that this was not a "Stanford study."

www.forbes.com

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Stanford disavows fraudulent study:

Stanford University Disavows Study Claiming Masks ‘Worthless’ Against COVID-19

University says author of study reprinted on Facebook and right wing media has no affiliation to school

www.voanews.com

Author of "Stanford" study has no nexus to Stanford and will not defend his claims:

Study lacks evidence on masks, isn’t linked to Stanford

CLAIM: A Stanford University study published on the National Institutes of Health website proves face masks are absolutely worthless against COVID-19. AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. This study is not affiliated with Stanford University, nor does the author work for the Veterans Affairs Palo Alto...

apnews.com

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Has anyone seen this yet? According to the article twitter has suspended at least one person who posted it. IDK how true that is. I'm going to try and read in the morning.

Study Results: Facemasks are Ineffective to Block Transmission of COVID-19 and Actually Can Cause Health Deterioration and Premature Death | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft

A recent study reported by the NCBI, which is under the National Institutes of Health, showed that masks do absolutely nothing to help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and their use is even harmful. NIH published a medical hypothesis by Dr.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Yes, it is a fraud/fake news.

School of Medicine: Study questioning use of face masks isn't from Stanford

www.sfgate.com

 

[Kirk Freeman]

But Kirk says we are liars if we say masks cause problems. This is obviously fake.

You nailed it, Bob. The Stanford study was a fake!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So screw the researchers at Stanford.

"The existing scientific evidences challenge the safety and efficacy of wearing facemask as preventive intervention for COVID-19. The data suggest that both medical and non-medical facemasks are ineffective to block human-to-human transmission of viral and infectious disease such SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, supporting against the usage of facemasks."

Yes, screw the fraudulent, teeth-talking nonsense at Stanford as Stanford has disavowed the fraudulent garbage.

Look, I know people don't like being told what to do. I understand, but you are doing it for others, not because you are "scared" or are a "sheople" or any of that other nonsense.

You carry a gun for the protection of yourself and others. Why not look at the mask as a pistol, an inconvenient protection device?

1. Wash your hands.
2. Stop licking doorknobs even though it is your rrryyyeeettt.
3. Exercise, eat well, take your vitamins, what have you.
4. Wear a mask for others.

And, above all, stop listening to brain-worm infected nonsense about how "masks don't work" or "masks kill you" or whatever Alex Jone inspired tripe that is going around the center right Internet.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

“Follow the science” until it stops fitting your agenda.

The Stanford study was garbage, total and complete garbage that fit political agendas (again, this thread is in politics for a reason).

If anyone desires to follow garbage, I cannot stop them, but know what the inane fake studies about mask not being effective were done during the Spanish flu. The fake play at Stanford has been run before, then it fooled people who were predisposed to believe "them thar masks ain't working no how", and this is true today.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I think only actual real ass scientists should get to say that someone is not following the science. That way no one will be following the science. And then we can call it a day.

Seriously though I do kinda think that. Kirk, or whoever, maybe your average rando blue-check Twitterer, admonishing people to follow the science or claiming that people who don't agree with them are not following the science, I think isn't helping.

It's something I've really hated for a long time now. It's like people arguing about global warming who aren't climatologists and really don't have the depth of working knowledge to do anything but throw experts at dissenters and claim they're anti-science. These people should just sit the **** down and let the real ass scientists debate stuff. Of course in public where everyone gets to hear the bad ideas being quashed. But, point is, we should all stop seeking proxies of the knowledge we lack to fight our internet battles as if we're smarter for it.

Jamil, I understand that people do not want to be inconvenienced so they grab on to any anti-science nonsense that comes along. It is human nature, confirmation bias. We have to acknowledge that.

I completely agree that admonishing others is a feckless gesture. Education should have been broader and comprehensive to overcome human inertia.

Let's hope we are coming out of this pandemic!

 

[churchmouse]

The Stanford study was garbage, total and complete garbage that fit political agendas (again, this thread is in politics for a reason).

If anyone desires to follow garbage, I cannot stop them, but know what the inane fake studies about mask not being effective were done during the Spanish flu. The fake play at Stanford has been run before, then it fooled people who were predisposed to believe "them thar masks ain't working no how", and this is true today.

This is all a political agenda Kirk.
Yes it is a serious flu.
Yes people are getting sick.
Yes people are dying from it but at what rate.
Yes I have had it. I fit the demographic that suffers the most when dealing with it.
I aint dead and know Soooooooooo many others that are not dead from it as well.

Show me the bodies peoples. You will never convince me otherwise.
And it s not my responsibility to protect you.....or you.....or you over there. Protect your damned self OK. This **** has ruined our country, opened the door for those moron Puppets in the big house and stolen a year from my life. A year I did not have to loose.
It needs to end. Now.

 

[bobzilla]

There it is. We are all “anti-science”. Never mind that we SEE the same results in our daily lives that this “garbage” points out. We are all just selfish, horrible people that do unspeakable things. That is what Kirk is saying. Repeatedly. Makes the apology earlier pretty ****ing hollow.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

This is all a political agenda Kirk.
Yes it is a serious flu.
Yes people are getting sick.
Yes people are dying from it but at what rate.
Yes I have had it. I fit the demographic that suffers the most when dealing with it.
I aint dead and know Soooooooooo many others that are not dead from it as well.

Show me the bodies peoples. You will never convince me otherwise.
And it s not my responsibility to protect you.....or you.....or you over there. Protect your damned self OK. This **** has ruined our country, opened the door for those moron Puppets in the big house and stolen a year from my life. A year I did not have to loose.
It needs to end. Now.

I have no doubt that politicians take advantage of emergencies, but the emergency still exists. The question is how to deal with it.

I have (long) argued that education is the key. Instead of dictating on high, a tactic likely to draw a visceral response from places such as INGO, Holcomb should have allowed counties, with state support, to educate their populations about how to live and thrive in a pandemic-infected world instead of taking a year of your life (to borrow your phrasing [I do not disagree]).

It is our responsibility to protect each other from plagues, much like it is our responsibility not to get all liquored up and drive around. This was the purpose of state government before the creation of the Welfare State and its redistribution mechanisms. The problem is that modern medicine dehorsed the Great Horseman of Man, disease, and people were not used to how things used to be.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

There it is. We are all “anti-science”. Never mind that we SEE the same results in our daily lives that this “garbage” points out. We are all just selfish, horrible people that do unspeakable things. That is what Kirk is saying. Repeatedly. Makes the apology earlier pretty ****ing hollow.

Just pointing out the fake science that is being presented in this political thread.

 

[churchmouse]

I have no doubt that politicians take advantage of emergencies, but the emergency still exists. The question is how to deal with it.

I have (long) argued that education is the key. Instead of dictating on high, a tactic likely to draw a visceral response from places such as INGO, Holcomb should have allowed counties, with state support, to educate their populations about how to live and thrive in a pandemic-infected world instead of taking a year of your life (to borrow your phrasing [I do not disagree]).

It is our responsibility to protect each other from plagues, much like it is our responsibility not to get all liquored up and drive around. This was the purpose of state government before the creation of the Welfare State and its redistribution mechanisms. The problem is that modern medicine dehorsed the Great Horseman of Man, disease, and people were not used to how things used to be.

To your last paragraph I can find common ground.....but this scamdemic need to end sir.
If I see one more commercial on the tube about it I am shooting my TV. Its a load of crap.
But no, its not my responsibility to save you from this mess. There is nothing to save you from sir.

Now, lets go get lunch and support a local business and the people who rely on it.......OK.
Get my point.

 

[Hawkeye]

To your last paragraph I can find common ground.....but this scamdemic need to end sir.
If I see one more commercial on the tube about it I am shooting my TV. Its a load of crap.
But no, its not my responsibility to save you from this mess. There is nothing to save you from sir.

Now, lets go get lunch and support a local business and the people who rely on it.......OK.
Get my point.

Have you shot your TV yet? Its been about 10 minutes...

 

[churchmouse]

Have you shot your TV yet? Its been about 10 minutes...

Its not on right now.
I did throw a pillow at it last night.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

To your last paragraph I can find common ground.....but this scamdemic need to end sir.
If I see one more commercial on the tube about it I am shooting my TV. Its a load of crap.
But no, its not my responsibility to save you from this mess. There is nothing to save you from sir.

Now, lets go get lunch and support a local business and the people who rely on it.......OK.
Get my point.

The pandemic exists. We must acknowledge this so we can defeat it. To deny it is to end up like Ted Nugent.

Ted Nugent, who once dismissed COVID-19, sickened by virus

Rocker Ted Nugent is revealing he was in agony after testing positive for coronavirus — months after he said the virus was “not a real pandemic.”

apnews.com

I am optimistic as I think we are on the down side of the curve. The danger is to allow the fake science to allow people to rationalize reckless behavior.

As a local businessman, I whole-heartedly endorse your last paragraph, especially lunch on Friday.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Have you shot your TV yet? Its been about 10 minutes...

What gun for TV? That's a thread in General Firearms, yes?

 

[churchmouse]

The pandemic exists. We must acknowledge this so we can defeat it. To deny it is to end up like Ted Nugent.

Ted Nugent, who once dismissed COVID-19, sickened by virus

Rocker Ted Nugent is revealing he was in agony after testing positive for coronavirus — months after he said the virus was “not a real pandemic.”

apnews.com

I am optimistic as I think we are on the down side of the curve. The danger is to allow the fake science to allow people to rationalize reckless behavior.

As a local businessman, I whole-heartedly endorse your last paragraph, especially lunch on Friday.

As with Ted yes it beat my butt down hard but then again so did the actual "Real: flu I just got over. I know what its about.

We have been on the downside but to many brokering power and making money from it.

And yes, lunch...

 

[J Galt]

. . .

It is our responsibility to protect each other from plagues, much like it is our responsibility not to get all liquored up and drive around. This was the purpose of state government before the creation of the Welfare State and its redistribution mechanisms. The problem is that modern medicine dehorsed the Great Horseman of Man, disease, and people were not used to how things used to be.

1. Calling this a "plague" and creating an implied link to the plague of the mid 1300s is a subtle, and effective, method to try and give this pandemic more seriousness.

2. The seriousness of this illness is, itself, being questioned more and more.

3. How is it our responsibility to protect each other from "plagues"? If that were the case why were you not previously advocating for mask use during EVERY flu season? During the pandemics of the past? SARS, Bird Flu, Monkey Pox, West Nile, Swine Flu, etc., etc. ad nauseum. In all fairness, maybe you were. Were you? It is not anyone's responsibility. It is the individual's responsibility to take additional measures if they are fearful.




Violating my rights is not the same as demanding I not get liquored up and drive through the Christmas Parade.