To carry or not to carry

[AmericanMade2819]

Lets say a person is new to handguns and they do not have much practice or skill yet. Would it be better for this person to carry or leave it at home until their skills improve?

To me, the liability of an unskilled shooter has the potential to far outweigh the benefits. On the other hand, if the novice is strolling through an empty field that liability has the potential to drop significantly.

My answer is "it depends" (doesnt it always!). If the novice is going to a crowded area such as downtown Indy or something similar, maybe leave it at home until his skills improve. If the novice is taking a nice hike out away from it all or something similar, maybe be a little more willing to bring it along. As skill improves, carry more and more.

 

[SSGSAD]

I will probably get FLAMED, for this .....

UNTIL YOU, are COMFORTABLE,

Carry condition 3, and DO NOT put yourself in a position,

where you need to use it .....

We have ALL been there .....

 

[indyjohn]

Let's say you're at the grocery store, in the dairy isle. Some guy you've never seen before comes at you screaming for you to give him your cell phone and he has a big kitchen knife in his hand. You say no and he comes at you with the knife obviously with intent to stab you.

What do you do?

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Let's say you're at the grocery store, in the dairy isle. Some guy you've never seen before comes at you screaming for you to give him your cell phone and he has a big kitchen knife in his hand. You say no and he comes at you with the knife obviously with intent to stab you.

What do you do?

Give him my cell phone! I hate the stupid thing.

 

[indyjohn]

Give him my cell phone! I hate the stupid thing.

Well, there is that...

 

[2A_Tom]

Well I think that a woman who has no experience with guns and who's life has been threatened should sign up for Guy's Indiana Law course and Coach and BBI's Defensive handgun I and II. Possibly a home defense course and a defense outside the home course and go to the range for several months before she even thinks of buying a gun.

Now a guy, just get the biggest gun you can possibly carry(I suggest a .30 calibet belt fed machine gun rather than a .50 cal, at least to start) and carry every where from day one.

 

[chezuki]

Let's say you're at the grocery store, in the dairy isle. Some guy you've never seen before comes at you screaming for you to give him your cell phone and he has a big kitchen knife in his hand. You say no and he comes at you with the knife obviously with intent to stab you.

What do you do?

Depends... how much is a gallon of milk?

 

[indyjohn]

Poor OP. Asks a reasonable question and his thread goes sideways in about 15 seconds.

True to INGO style..

I may have to defer to TBE, I don't care for my phone either. But I'm not sure about the getting stabbed part, that doesn't sound like fun.

 

[SSGSAD]

2nd post, was fine, 3rd post, well .....

I carried condition 3 longer, than I want to admit .....

S A, ALWAYS .....

 

[AmericanMade2819]

Poor OP. Asks a reasonable question and his thread goes sideways in about 15 seconds.

True to INGO style..

I may have to defer to TBE, I don't care for my phone either. But I'm not sure about the getting stabbed part, that doesn't sound like fun.

It appears to be quality sarcasm. I'll allow it.

 

[indyjohn]

It appears to be quality sarcasm. I'll allow it.

We mean well. Really.

Carry the gun in condition 1 and get some range time and training ASAP! The price of milk is not going down.

 

[KellyinAvon]

It takes a lot a practice to get comfortable doing something that allows for no complacency. A good belt and a good holster can't be left out of the conversation. Practice and training, know your firearm and holster, go to a class or two like BF mentioned. Be smart on the law (IC 35-47 covers handgun licensing and where you can't carry even with an LTCH), if you cross a State line know the laws there.

Put another way, choosing to lawfully carry a handgun is a lifestyle. Are you going to the Post Office? A school? I your church a school or daycare? Everything now requires thought and planning. It's a lot of responsibility and it takes getting used to.

 

[indyjohn]

EDC really is a lifestyle. If you embrace it, you'll get to the point you are Uncomfortable when you're without it. For me, it's like wearing a seatbelt when driving. I think how did I ever NOT wear it.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Lets say a person is new to handguns and they do not have much practice or skill yet. Would it be better for this person to carry or leave it at home until their skills improve?

To me, the liability of an unskilled shooter has the potential to far outweigh the benefits. On the other hand, if the novice is strolling through an empty field that liability has the potential to drop significantly.

My answer is "it depends" (doesnt it always!). If the novice is going to a crowded area such as downtown Indy or something similar, maybe leave it at home until his skills improve. If the novice is taking a nice hike out away from it all or something similar, maybe be a little more willing to bring it along. As skill improves, carry more and more.

That is a great question.

You mention that the person is an unskilled shooter. How is their decision making?

 

[jagee]

It takes a lot a practice to get comfortable doing something that allows for no complacency. A good belt and a good holster can't be left out of the conversation. Practice and training, know your firearm and holster, go to a class or two like BF mentioned. Be smart on the law (IC 35-47 covers handgun licensing and where you can't carry even with an LTCH), if you cross a State line know the laws there.

Put another way, choosing to lawfully carry a handgun is a lifestyle. Are you going to the Post Office? A school? I your church a school or daycare? Everything now requires thought and planning. It's a lot of responsibility and it takes getting used to.

Yeah, technically I don't have an EDC. I dont carry every day. I go to church that is also a school. I dont carry at work, but have one in my bag. I don't take it in the gym with me. I really only on-body carry on Saturdays or Friday night if we go out on the town.

 

[Denny347]

Lets say a person is new to handguns and they do not have much practice or skill yet. Would it be better for this person to carry or leave it at home until their skills improve?

To me, the liability of an unskilled shooter has the potential to far outweigh the benefits. On the other hand, if the novice is strolling through an empty field that liability has the potential to drop significantly.

My answer is "it depends" (doesnt it always!). If the novice is going to a crowded area such as downtown Indy or something similar, maybe leave it at home until his skills improve. If the novice is taking a nice hike out away from it all or something similar, maybe be a little more willing to bring it along. As skill improves, carry more and more.

If he/she has had no training and has no confidence in their ability to use it if needed, LEAVE IT AT HOME. AGAIN AGAIN and AGAIN, I preach that carrying a gun does not make you safer if you don't know how to use it or cannot point a gun and pull the trigger up close and personal. YOU are the weapon, the gun is merely a tool. Buying a saw does not a carpenter make.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I've investigated hundreds of shootings. Untrained folks have done pretty well for themselves when it's one on one, they get the element of surprise (say, feigning compliance until seeing an opening), and they present a functional firearm. Where they've failed is presenting a non-functional firearm (say, not getting the safety off, empty chamber carry, etc), simply trying to outdraw a drawn gun, or getting disabled/killed before they could access their gun (reaching for off body carry, for example). They also shoot themselves more often that they shoot bad guys. Generally not fatally, but it usually looks like it sucks.

I'd recommend at least a basic handgun safety class prior to carrying. ADs resulting in injury are at least 10 times more common that self-defense shootings (and non-shootings were a gun was pulled but not fired and then the incident was reported to the police, obviously I can't count incidents not reported). So, as empty chamber carry has already entered the arena, that's a bad idea. It causes confusion as to the status of the weapon, creates situations where the carrier dies before he can get the gun operational, and still doesn't prevent all ADs. Learn gun safety and carry the gun as intended. If you simply can't bring yourself to carry a gun with a chambered round, carry a revolver.

On that note, the revolver is a better gun for the untrained. The admin handling is simpler (you can't reverse clearing steps and shoot yourself, you don't pull the trigger to break it down, you can see all the cartridges when you unload as there's nothing "hidden" in a chamber, and revolvers tolerate lack of maintenance better).

The gun is not a talisman, people lose with a gun in their hand or in their holster. On the other hand, you can *never* be prepared for 100% of situations. If you were the target of the DC Sniper duo back when they were a thing, training is irrelevant if that first shot hit you. However, the better trained you are, the more situations you can handle.

I'd recommend, in general order:

1) Some sort of Managing Unknown Contacts course. Before learning guns, learn to see fights coming, avoid, defuse, etc.
2) Medical training
3) Handgun safety
4) Handgun fundamentals

Only then move into fighting courses.

As Blue Falcon mentioned, I do offer a level 1 and level 2 course that deals specifically with defensive handgun use. The focus is primarily on street and business robberies, but also covers sexual assaults and other types of street crime. It includes some elements of managing unknown contacts, body language and pre-attack indicators, law, post-shooting, etc. We actually don't talk about how to shoot and fundamentals that much, as you're expected to know how to shoot when you take the course. In level 2, we do some fundamentals work for things that are low hanging fruit but few have ranges to practice on (shooting on the move vs a moving target, for example). Everything in my classes is taken from cases I, or someone in my office, have worked. It's all real world stuff, win or lose, and the lessons learned from those shootings.

 

[AmericanMade2819]

That is a great question.

You mention that the person is an unskilled shooter. How is their decision making?

Speaking of great questions...

This one truly is a hypothetical so we could go either way. I'd say better decision making would add to the "skills" of the person. Better decision, in my mind, would include leaving it at home without the handling skills. And it would obviously include situational awareness and the like.

 

[churchmouse]

Let's say you're at the grocery store, in the dairy isle. Some guy you've never seen before comes at you screaming for you to give him your cell phone and he has a big kitchen knife in his hand. You say no and he comes at you with the knife obviously with intent to stab you.

What do you do?

I think you know what I would do.

 

[AmericanMade2819]

I've investigated hundreds of shootings. Untrained folks have done pretty well for themselves when it's one on one, they get the element of surprise (say, feigning compliance until seeing an opening), and they present a functional firearm. Where they've failed is presenting a non-functional firearm (say, not getting the safety off, empty chamber carry, etc), simply trying to outdraw a drawn gun, or getting disabled/killed before they could access their gun (reaching for off body carry, for example). They also shoot themselves more often that they shoot bad guys. Generally not fatally, but it usually looks like it sucks.

I'd recommend at least a basic handgun safety class prior to carrying. ADs resulting in injury are at least 10 times more common that self-defense shootings (and non-shootings were a gun was pulled but not fired and then the incident was reported to the police, obviously I can't count incidents not reported). So, as empty chamber carry has already entered the arena, that's a bad idea. It causes confusion as to the status of the weapon, creates situations where the carrier dies before he can get the gun operational, and still doesn't prevent all ADs. Learn gun safety and carry the gun as intended. If you simply can't bring yourself to carry a gun with a chambered round, carry a revolver.

On that note, the revolver is a better gun for the untrained. The admin handling is simpler (you can't reverse clearing steps and shoot yourself, you don't pull the trigger to break it down, you can see all the cartridges when you unload as there's nothing "hidden" in a chamber, and revolvers tolerate lack of maintenance better).

The gun is not a talisman, people lose with a gun in their hand or in their holster. On the other hand, you can *never* be prepared for 100% of situations. If you were the target of the DC Sniper duo back when they were a thing, training is irrelevant if that first shot hit you. However, the better trained you are, the more situations you can handle.

I'd recommend, in general order:

1) Some sort of Managing Unknown Contacts course. Before learning guns, learn to see fights coming, avoid, defuse, etc.
2) Medical training
3) Handgun safety
4) Handgun fundamentals

Only then move into fighting courses.

As Blue Falcon mentioned, I do offer a level 1 and level 2 course that deals specifically with defensive handgun use. The focus is primarily on street and business robberies, but also covers sexual assaults and other types of street crime. It includes some elements of managing unknown contacts, body language and pre-attack indicators, law, post-shooting, etc. We actually don't talk about how to shoot and fundamentals that much, as you're expected to know how to shoot when you take the course. In level 2, we do some fundamentals work for things that are low hanging fruit but few have ranges to practice on (shooting on the move vs a moving target, for example). Everything in my classes is taken from cases I, or someone in my office, have worked. It's all real world stuff, win or lose, and the lessons learned from those shootings.

I am highly interested in these kinds of courses. Feel free to send me a PM with info and I will definitely check it out.

I've trained in martial arts for years and I'm always on the look out for things that incorporate firearms and other weapons into the mix.