Tier 1 AR's?

[pierce195]

I have read on an other site about Tier 1 rifles. I didn't see a list of "tier 1" rifle makers. I have read a lot about the why parts are staked but right and wrong.

They put Stag, Colt, RRA, and a few others in the middle of the road for AR producers.

What are your thoughts on Tier 1 AR's and is the price difference worth it?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[shooter521]

I think the whole "tier" thing is bogus. Buy the best quality gun you can afford with the features you want, stop worrying about it, and go shoot.

But who in the world puts Colt as "middle of the road"?

I would have no problem buying or recommending Colt, Sabre Defense, LMT, Daniel Defense or S&W for an off-the-shelf complete gun. Throw in Bravo Company for barrels and uppers. They're all top shelf IMO. That said, Bushmaster, Rock River, Armalite, etc, will more than suffice for the vast majority of Ordinary Earth People buying a Black Rifle for recreation, competition or the dreaded SHTF.

 

[Rich.Carpenter]

I don't own an AR (yet, I'm in the process of ordering parts for my first and I've been doing a *ton* of research), but from what I understand, it all boils down to the bolt carrier group and the firing group. If you have quality there, you can just about cobble parts together from anyone and end up with a quality AR-15. Of course, there are parts out there that throw a monkey wrench into that theory, but they aren't that numerous.

My point is, though people might come up with some sort of ranking, and while that ranking might actually have some merit, the "middle of the road" rifles are not very far behind the "best of the best". Now, if you're talking about a weapon you're going into battle with, then that difference might stretch a bit, but not much. The single most significant factor is how well the weapon is maintained. A well maintained "middle of the road" AR will very likely feel like a better rifle than a poorly maintained "top of the line" rifle.

 

[shooter521]

it all boils down to the bolt carrier group and the firing group. If you have quality there, you can just about cobble parts together from anyone and end up with a quality AR-15.

Oh, I dunno... a decent barrel helps too, as does a lower receiver with holes the right diameter and in the right location. But I agree with the sentiment.

 

[Yeah]

No doubt there are people on this planet who need the absolute best AR they can get because they are going to use it in ways and in places that are so far out on the edge of what constitutes abuse that they will be able to detect differences that the most of us never will. So for the people in the former group the price is well worth it.

But for everyone else, what is the practical difference between 4150 barrel steel and 4140? Will you ever shoot it enough to tell? Or a black extractor insert versus a blue one? Is an improvement of 1 stoppage per XXX rounds going to matter to you? (not that anyone has reliably quantified the difference)

 

[360]

Likewise I don't see the reason to pay the crazy prices for the Daniel Defense and other parts. If UTG can make a rail for $89, everyone else should be able to as well. Most of us will not use them for what they were intended for.

 

[Lars]

Likewise I don't see the reason to pay the crazy prices for the Daniel Defense and other parts. If UTG can make a rail for $89, everyone else should be able to as well. Most of us will not use them for what they were intended for.

I'll pay a premium for the Daniel Defense parts because they're built in Georgia. UTG, owned by Leapers... Is a Chinese company.

 

[360]

I'll pay a premium for the Daniel Defense parts because they're built in Georgia. UTG, owned by Leapers... Is a Chinese company.

And that sir, is why they have a premium price.

 

[Astrocreep]

I've done a lot of reading and research on this subject, but have no hands-on experience with so-called 'Tier 1' AR-15 products.

Word is that LMT is the top dog of AR-15 makers.
Lewis Machine & Tool Company :: www.lewismachine.net

Noveske Rifleworks is a close second.
Noveske Rifleworks, LLC. Precision Battle Weapons. NoveskeRifleworks.com

Other manufacturers also make superb products, but those two seem to be what everyone wants. I have not found any negative reviews of those brands ANYWHERE.

When building your own, the consensus seems to be that a lower is a lower is a lower.
Other components vary tremendously in quality/price, sometimes inversely.

I have, however, read many, many accounts of people saying that DPMS and Olympic Arms are two companies to avoid like the plague.


If you're really interested and don't have the cash to experiment, browse some of those EBR magazines for a while and read online reviews by the experts.
Personally, I've got my heart set on a Noveske N4 (can't decide to go shorty or not)

Now, I've just got to find the $2200. Sheesh. Maybe Uncle Sam will give me back enough of my money this April...

 

[BloodEclipse]

I have 4 different lowers. S&W, RRA, Stag and a DPMS.
The DPMS is the only one that I had an issue with.

 

[smitty12b]

I've done a lot of reading and research on this subject, but have no hands-on experience with so-called 'Tier 1' AR-15 products.

Word is that LMT is the top dog of AR-15 makers.
Lewis Machine & Tool Company :: www.lewismachine.net

Noveske Rifleworks is a close second.
Noveske Rifleworks, LLC. Precision Battle Weapons. NoveskeRifleworks.com

Other manufacturers also make superb products, but those two seem to be what everyone wants. I have not found any negative reviews of those brands ANYWHERE.

When building your own, the consensus seems to be that a lower is a lower is a lower.
Other components vary tremendously in quality/price, sometimes inversely.

I have, however, read many, many accounts of people saying that DPMS and Olympic Arms are two companies to avoid like the plague.


If you're really interested and don't have the cash to experiment, browse some of those EBR magazines for a while and read online reviews by the experts.
Personally, I've got my heart set on a Noveske N4 (can't decide to go shorty or not)

Now, I've just got to find the $2200. Sheesh. Maybe Uncle Sam will give me back enough of my money this April...

I personally think Noveske is on top( and I have a LMT) but there is also Les Baer and Wilson Cbt. As for lowers they are pretty much the same, unless you go with a billet( then you have to pick gen1,2 or3) but like Shooter said, some just don't have the quality control of others.

 

[hickuleas]

I also prefer Noveske the last three complete rifles have been Noveske. John Noveske is known for his quality barrels. Also use LMT and seem to buy lots of LMT lowers. Bravo Manufacturing Co. are well made. I like their uppers and believe they are made by Lewis Machine & Tool. Good rifles are expensive but with the right ones you are getting better quality control and a better product. Yes i know you get what you pay for so i buy good equipment. My life and others around me are worth it.

 

[Mudcat]

I have little experience with the so called "top tier" ARs. I do have a few of the so called "mid range" rifles though. Last year at an Appleseed in Evansville there was a soldier from ft. Campbell there with a decked out LMT. He had said it was his second upper because the first blew the bolt carrier out the side of the upper while using factory ammo. He bought another upper and bolt and had not yet painted it to match the rest or the rifle. That is what prompted me to ask him about it. Later the next day while firing stage 4 of an AQT his rifle quit functioning. A quick look at the carrier key revealed that the carrier key had come loose and was bleeding off gasses. Techres tightened it up and got him back into the game. That was my first experience with an LMT. Then this past fall a buddy just had to have one of the LMTs with the quick change barrels. The rifle would work fine with surplus ammo with crimped primers, but some Hornady TAP was tried and it blew the primers out as it did with other brands of ammo with uncrimped primers. he called LMT and they asked him to send his barrel back for inspection, which he did. The called him and said they could find any thing wrong with his barrel , But they were replacing it anyway. He got the barrel and it was too big where it slid into the upper receiver. It lacked about 1/4" being in far enough to put the bolts through to hold it in. Another call and slight bit of complaining and his entire upper is off back to LMT. He has been 8 weeks without a "top tier " rifle now. All the while the rest of our shooting group have been sending rounds down range with our "tier 2" rifles.

These are the only experiences I have with the LMTs. I know by what others post that they are great rifles, but my first hand experience does not show the same.

 

[motoman]

top tier ar's: colt, noveske, lmt, bravo and a couple others. they are top tier because they test their parts properly most all others dont. i wouldnt buy any of the others again and i have mucho experience with the middle and lower tier guns to say that. this is obviously my opinion though.

 

[762minigun]

The whole tier thing is childish. My manhood is bigger than your manhood, and I spent more money than you stuff. Spend some time reading, do your homework, buy quality components if you are building. The same applies if your buying off the shelf.

 

[Mrmonte]

A "top tier" rifle shoots where you aim and keeps running w/normal maintenance IMO. That could come from most manufactures.... Does Mil-spec matter? Only if you want to be sure that your keeping up with cutting edge 1965 technology.

 

[indybrad]

I have a Bravo Company upper, an Upper I built, and an upper From Larue Tactical. Never had a problem with any of them. The Larue is a tac driver.